Originally Posted By mawnck The revolution is not being televised. >>There’s something happening here. What it is ain’t exactly clear, but we may, at long last, be seeing the rise of a popular movement that, unlike the Tea Party, is angry at the right people.<< >>A weary cynicism, a belief that justice will never get served, has taken over much of our political debate — and, yes, I myself have sometimes succumbed. In the process, it has been easy to forget just how outrageous the story of our economic woes really is. So, in case you’ve forgotten, it was a play in three acts. In the first act, bankers took advantage of deregulation to run wild (and pay themselves princely sums), inflating huge bubbles through reckless lending. In the second act, the bubbles burst — but bankers were bailed out by taxpayers, with remarkably few strings attached, even as ordinary workers continued to suffer the consequences of the bankers’ sins. And, in the third act, bankers showed their gratitude by turning on the people who had saved them, throwing their support — and the wealth they still possessed thanks to the bailouts — behind politicians who promised to keep their taxes low and dismantle the mild regulations erected in the aftermath of the crisis. Given this history, how can you not applaud the protesters for finally taking a stand?<< <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/07/opinion/krugman-confronting-the-malefactors.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10...ors.html</a> Your thoughts?
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 Have the Wall St protests really been going on for three weeks? I heard on the radio that these are now going national. One of the cities that about 200 people protested at was in Vegas on the strip. First off all are you really going to notice 200 additional people on the strip. Second, if this were the old Vegas, that wouldn't be happening.
Originally Posted By gadzuux What's been interesting about this for me is the differing views by the punditry. Conservatives are opposed to it, are attempting to be dismissive of it, and call the participants "unamerican". No surprises there - conservatives have always avoided accountability. But that's exactly what I see here with these protests, a demand for accountability. The people who are most directly responsible for the economic meltdown of `08 are largely still in place, and still gouging out large chunks of OUR economy to enrich themselves. And more importantly, the republican party is still unashamedly fighting to prevent any regulations that might curb these excesses and offer some protection to society from the most rapacious practices. So who's really "unamerican"? The problem of course is that the objects of the demonstrators' ire are faceless - so they're protesting a street, a lot of big buildings, a mindset. Nothing can really come from this as long as the objective is so diffuse. The solution is with the US dept of justice - they're the ones with the power to call out individuals for investigation and/or prosecution. But the time for that has probably come and gone. And Obama and his team have never shown the necessary stones for taking on such a task. With a nasty election year staring us in the face, now isn't the time. And by the time the election's over, hello it's 2013 and republicans may have even more power to suppress justice. I support the demonstrators in my heart, but it seems like an exercise in futility - money and power and political corruption will always trump fairness and justice. Honor and integrity need not apply.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I would likely be more intersted if the protestors had a given agenda and solutions to offer. (now maybe they do and I have not seen it- that is very posiible)- in general being upset over corporate america running most things- overpaid CEO's - control over politicians is understandable and I have some of it myself. BUT, what is it they are proposing- if anything ?
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 That's true we don't know exactly what they're protesting. Do they want more money to the middle class and poor? Okay fine, fact is the the rich will still have more, that's why they're rich. And believe it or not, but not every rich fat cat in this country attained their wealth through dishonest means or where trust fund babies. Some actually did and still do put in good old fashioned hard work* *As do the middle and lower classes too.
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 The last story I saw said they are basically protesting for more regulation of the financial industry and are protesting against government protection (deregulation, tax breaks etc) for the financial industry over the "regular people." It is just as much a protest against the government as it is against Wall Street itself. In Seattle, the protest started with only about 100 people, but then they started getting arrested because they were refusing to take down their tents so park workers could clean the park. After that, several hundred people started showing up.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <BUT, what is it they are proposing- if anything ?> That's a legitimate question, and the protesters have been rather diffuse about this so far (though becoming less so as more experienced hands are coming on board). Krugman addresses this in the same piece, rather well: "A better critique of the protests is the absence of specific policy demands. It would probably be helpful if protesters could agree on at least a few main policy changes they would like to see enacted. But we shouldn’t make too much of the lack of specifics. It’s clear what kinds of things the Occupy Wall Street demonstrators want, and it’s really the job of policy intellectuals and politicians to fill in the details. Rich Yeselson, a veteran organizer and historian of social movements, has suggested that debt relief for working Americans become a central plank of the protests. I’ll second that, because such relief, in addition to serving economic justice, could do a lot to help the economy recover. I’d suggest that protesters also demand infrastructure investment — not more tax cuts — to help create jobs. Neither proposal is going to become law in the current political climate, but the whole point of the protests is to change that political climate. And there are real political opportunities here. Not, of course, for today’s Republicans, who instinctively side with those Theodore Roosevelt-dubbed “malefactors of great wealth.” Mitt Romney, for example — who, by the way, probably pays less of his income in taxes than many middle-class Americans — was quick to condemn the protests as “class warfare.” But Democrats are being given what amounts to a second chance. The Obama administration squandered a lot of potential good will early on by adopting banker-friendly policies that failed to deliver economic recovery even as bankers repaid the favor by turning on the president. Now, however, Mr. Obama’s party has a chance for a do-over. All it has to do is take these protests as seriously as they deserve to be taken. And if the protests goad some politicians into doing what they should have been doing all along, Occupy Wall Street will have been a smashing success. "
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 You have to wonder how much government regulation would truly make a difference. The banks would find some way around it. The other day there was a story about Dick Durbin telling people to leave Bank of America because they charge a $5 dollar fee if they want to take out money. Which is crazy. However, the reason that happened is because Congress passed a law that forced banks to add on additional fees. But I guess doin good ain't got no end.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 What law "forced" banks to add additional fees? And if they're "forced" to, how come my bank isn't doing it?
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 It's part of the Dodd-Frank Regulation proposal. <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/04/financial-regulation-debit-idUSN1E7930K720111004" target="_blank">http://www.reuters.com/article...20111004</a> The point is the government can add as many regulations as possible, it's not going to help us, because the banks will find a way around these. So to the Occupy Wall Street movement you're just wasting your time.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 I just think I let my concerns go back to more trivial matters in this world.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <It's part of the Dodd-Frank Regulation proposal. > No, it's not. There's nothing in there that "forces" a bank to charge that $5 fee. What BofA is saying is that because the law reduced the amount they could charge (i.e. rip off) merchants, they just "have to" make up the difference elsewhere. It's like a thief saying "well, if you put a lojack on your SUV, I'm forced to steal your Nissan instead." <The point is the government can add as many regulations as possible, it's not going to help us, because the banks will find a way around these. So to the Occupy Wall Street movement you're just wasting your time.> Geez, why get up in the morning, if that's your attitude? Besides, it's demonstrably false. We HAD common-sense regulations in place for 70 years, put there after the '29 crash, that did exactly what they were supposed to do. The most obvious one being the wall between commercial and investment banking so that commercial banks couldn't make risky investments with ordinary depositors' money. There was no way around that. They simply couldn't do it. That wall was taken down as part of "deregulation" and the result was disastrous.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>There's nothing in there that "forces" a bank to charge that $5 fee.<< This. And no other bank has yet felt "forced" to tack on this fee. It appears that somebody's government has been propping up a very inefficient bank.
Originally Posted By DVC dad123 In reply to post #1 (or the OP)... My thoughts are that the losers who don't want to work for a living and don't want to better themselves, and want their living handed to them without toil or effort, should go home and rethink things, then get a job and make something of themselves. Revolution. Oh brother.
Originally Posted By DVC dad123 OMG I'm getting sucked back in... help! Where's the delete button? I knew I should have stayed out of WE.
Originally Posted By Princessjenn5795 "My thoughts are that the losers who don't want to work for a living and don't want to better themselves, and want their living handed to them without toil or effort, should go home and rethink things, then get a job and make something of themselves. Revolution. Oh brother." Where do you get the idea that all of the protesters want things handed to them and think they do not have to work for a living? What they want is the financial industry to lose the power to destroy country's economy by being so greedy that they are willing to make incredibly risky deals without any thought to the consequences. They want the financial industry and the government to have to follow rules that kept this country from financial ruin for 70 years. They are not losers, and sometimes it takes a "revolution," as you call it, to get the leaders of this country to do what they should do, instead of what is best for their own political careers.
Originally Posted By Autopia Deb I think the protests are important. Even if they only serves to tell the government, big business and the general population that Americans are not happy with the state of things and regulations that too heavily favor big banking. Personally I think that those of us who can (realizing it is not practical for all) to vote with our business. Take your big mortgage and other debts and find the smallest regional bank you can and give them your business instead. These may not be able to offer the best rates out there, but you can bet you'll get much more personal customer service and it will, if enough people do it, let the big dogs know we won't be bullied by them and just take it because we have to.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> .... losers who don't want to work for a living and don't want to better themselves, and want their living handed to them without toil or effort, should go home and rethink things, then get a job and make something of themselves. << Actually, welcome back to WE - you succintly provide the opposing view that's often lacking around here. And for good reason. You want to "blame the victim". It's not much different than the quote from the GOPs new flavor of the week, Herman Cain, who says "if you don't have a job and aren't rich, blame yourself" - a 'let them eat cake' comment if ever there was one. Just waving these people off with a 'get a haircut and get a job' attitude illustrates both the heights of insensitivity and a callous lack of regard. It also demonstrates a complete and total lack of understanding of the current situation, and where the responsibilities lie. Finally, it smacks of "I got mine jack" which is so prevalent in the GOP mindset. So yeah, we need you around here DVCDad - no one else seems to want to step out and express the conservative viewpoint. I wonder why that is ?
Originally Posted By PotNoodle >> .... losers who don't want to work for a living and don't want to better themselves, and want their living handed to them without toil or effort, should go home and rethink things, then get a job and make something of themselves. << I have applied for so many jobs, I have lost count. I completed my Master's degree in June. I started applying for jobs that required an MA in March, I didn't get any nibbles. I then began applying for just that only required an BS/BA--nothing. Now, I am applying for seasonal employment at department stores. I network. I attend career fairs. I follow any lead I get from my mentor. I busted my ass in grad school. When I wasn't in class or at my practicum, I was writing papers. I also worked as a Research Assistant for a professor. I essentially ignored my son and my husband for 2 years, all the while telling myself it would be worth it in the end. I want to work. I am a work horse and a nerd. Keep me busy and I am happy. I worked for a big name advocacy organization and I have worked as part of an evaluation team on two grant projects funded by HHS, and I can't get a job! I worked hard and there's nothing there for me. So it's nothing but a bloody myth. I am going to Occupy Chicago next week, because this whole situation is a load of bollocks.
