Originally Posted By Donny Here is the Article <a href="http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/06/nation/la-na-democratic-defections-20110207" target="_blank">http://articles.latimes.com/20...20110207</a>
Originally Posted By ecdc This is bad news for the GOP. For starters, they already control the House of Representatives, so the new numbers don't really do them much good. The larger problem is the ongoing branding of the GOP as a largely Southern or rural party with antiquated and elderly supporters. Just today the head of the Colorado GOP said he wouldn't run for re-election because he's fed up with "nuts" and those willing to tolerate every conspiracy theory out there. And that's where they have problems - in the mid-west in traditionally conservative areas that also have large cities with more urban populations.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Southern Blue Dog (or more appropriately, Yellow Dog) Democrats have always been more aligned to the current conservative ideals of the GOP than the DNC. Having them switch from the Dems to the Republicans is simply a matter of paper shuffling. They've always caucused with the Republicans in recent years. Now, their party affiliations will better match their voting records. If you're suggesting, Donny, that this is somehow evident that the Republicans are gaining ground on Democrats, you're sadly mistaken.
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 >Conservative Democrats switch to GOP across the Deep South< You do realize that most of the GOP currently are old conservative democrats correct? We all remember history right? Democrats want to keep the black man down and keep states rights. Civil War happens. Still want to keep the same things. Democrats switch to GOP after Democrats become the face of Equal Rights.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Democrats want to keep the black man down and keep states rights.>> You apparently forget that Lincoln was a Republican.
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 Uh...what? I was explaining how the current GOP is composed of mostly Older southern ex-democrats and why they switched.... Lincoln has nothing to do with this.
Originally Posted By Longhorn12 *EDIT* Ok well Lincoln has a lot to do with the civil war etc. But again not what I'm getting at. Old southern democrats becoming republicans is nothing new. It's basically how the current GOP was formed.
Originally Posted By andyll They are trying to save their jobs. But in the south ( and elsewhere ) you will have to be far right and tea party like to win the primary.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt >>"I think the midterms showed you really can't be a conservative and be a member of the Democratic Party," Bell said.<< Thank goodness.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.<< John Stuart Mill, English philosopher and economist, to a Conservative MP in 1866
Originally Posted By Mr X lol and VERY cool Maw. lmao! The amazing thing, to me, is that so many otherwise disenfranchised and destitute folks consistently vote against their own personal financial interests with their "conservative" votes. The right wing has them suckered by the "values" thing (which the true powers that be on the right wing couldn't care less about), along with some sort of bizarre fantasy that they, too, will be among the "well off" or even "rich" someday...so better vote for what's good for them now since they'll be joining up with them at some point. Beyond that, I can't fathom why a poor or even a middle class person would *ever* vote Republican. I really can't.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative.>> It's funny you point out that quote. I was having an argument with my mother the other day about conservatives, and somehow we got on the topic of university professors being very liberal. She saw that as a negative, but I pointed out that it was interesting that our most educated people seemed to consistently lean towards liberalism, and that the uneducated always seemed to be more conservative. She didn't really have much of a comeback for than other than to be offended.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "The right wing has them suckered by the "values" thing" I think that the last thing the GOP wants to do is overturn Roe vs. Wade. If that happened they would lose one of their hooks with which to snag the fundy right. "along with some sort of bizarre fantasy that they, too, will be among the "well off" or even "rich" someday" I'm actually seeing a new and perhaps even more insidious trend: The belief that personal economic insecurity is a "good thing" and that it "makes America strong". I'm hearing this out of the mouths of the younger generation a lot lateley.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip The main feeling I get from conservatives around here is more based on principal. They REALIZE that they would benefit more from liberal policies, and they realize their own chances of becoming wealthy are slim at best. But they feel there is more opportunity for success in America than anywhere else in the world (which there is) and that if we start tinkering with the formula too much that will no longer be the case. They also
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Didn’t mean for that to post yet… They also put great importance on self-reliance and have a fair amount of disdain for relying on the government to take care of you. I think claims that they are too stupid to know what is in their self-interest and are less intelligent than liberals are way off the mark. Having spent a lifetime working with people holding master degrees and PhD's I can say that a pretty fair percentage of them don't have the common sense of a typical five-year-old.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>They REALIZE that they would benefit more from liberal policies, and they realize their own chances of becoming wealthy are slim at best. But they feel there is more opportunity for success in America than anywhere else in the world<< They do realize that both of these can't be true, right? And that their "opportunity for success" will be sucked away from them by the conservative policies they keep voting for? Didn't think so. >>I can say that a pretty fair percentage of them don't have the common sense of a typical five-year-old.<< Yet another conservatives' way of saying "they aren't conservatives."
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Having spent a lifetime working with people holding master degrees and PhD's I can say that a pretty fair percentage of them don't have the common sense of a typical five-year-old.>> Up yours. I have an M.A., and certainly have more common sense than a typical five-year-old. I've also worked for years with folks who had Ph.D.s, some of whom even had multiple doctorates. What I found to be especially true for those of us with advanced degrees, versus those without any college education, is that we have developed the ability to follow logical arguments and reasonably analyze situations without allowing prejudices to blind us to the cold reality of fact-based information. But this is precisely what the uneducated Fox News follower cannot do. This is why the uneducated conservative voters allow themselves to be swayed by emotional rhetoric that has no basis in reality. Their lack of education and training in critical thinking skills prevents them from understanding when their emotions are being manipulated into swaying them to make poor decisions at the ballot box. The uneducated voters refuse to do even the most basic fact-checking on what they hear from the conservative pundits. Educated voters do fact-checking all the time. This is why so many educated citizens are liberal and progressive. They don't fall for the emotional rhetoric being pushed by Fox News and other conservative pundits.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I have an M.A., and certainly have more common sense than a typical five-year-old. I've also worked for years with folks who had Ph.D.s, some of whom even had multiple doctorates.>> I said a fair percentage... not all. And yes, I've had co-workers with PhD's who were absolutely pathetic at handling the routine aspects of daily life. They may be great at analysis, but have no ability to prioritize or get things done on a timely basis. Some stayed in school as long as they did because they really had no idea how to get by in the "real world". The academic environment seemed "safe" and they wanted to stay there forever.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<... but have no ability to prioritize or get things done on a timely basis.>> Which has absolutely ZERO correlation regarding analysis of political rhetoric and the ability to critically analyze information presented by the media! And that's what we're focusing on here. Academics are good at analysis. You agreed. And it's that analytical skill which makes those academics so good at seeing through the BS put forth by conservative media pundits on Fox News and right wing radio. The uneducated white male over 65 yrs demographic of Fox News is unable to sift through the lies and half-truths being presented every night. These viewers continuously vote against their own self-interest -- which is precisely what the corporatist controlled GOP wants them to do -- because they lack the education and skill set needed to sift through that junk and fact-check the stories in order to make informed decisions at the polls. Academics with advanced degrees are progressive and liberal for this very reason. They are smart enough and skilled enough in analysis to figure out when they're being manipulated and outright lied to, about the political events of the day. The uneducated individual is typically not as skilled, unless they educate themselves outside the classroom, which some have done. Unfortunately, most have not. This is why most uneducated working class voters continue to vote for Republicans who represent the special interests of corporations and the ultra-rich. These voters do not possess the requisite skills needed to figure out when they're being duped and when their emotions are being manipulated.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Voting against one's own self-interest is not a bad thing in and of itself. In fact, if someone votes to increase their own tax rate for example, because it will help the less fortunate, that can be seen as admirable. If we all only voted in our own self-interest it wouldn't really be for the best all of the time. I can see why someone would choose to vote for certain conservative principals. Cost containment, budget accountability, fiscal responsibility. I can see why someone would be in favor of that regardless of their station in life. However, what I have difficulty understanding is how so many conservatives can turn a blind eye to fiscal boondoggles when it comes to defense and military spending. It is in this area that many conservatives allow emotionalism to trump logic and sound fiscal discipline. In all the cuts announced by the new congress, little if any of it focuses on military spending, which is simply astronomical. I'll believe Republicans are realy serious about getting our fiscal house in order when they start talking about what a total waste Iraq and Afghanistan were/are. Until then, it's all politics as usual. Cutting the measly Corporation for Public Broadcasting is one of their priorities. LOL, that would be a couple days' cost of operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.
