Originally Posted By skinnerbox Elections have consequences: <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://thinkprogress.org/sports/2015/06/10/3667600/wisconsinites-blast-scott-walkers-stadium-deal-outrageous/">http://thinkprogress.org/sport...rageous/</a> Wisconsinites Blast Scott Walker’s Stadium Deal As ‘Outrageous’ by Alice Ollstein Posted on June 10, 2015 at 8:53 am Updated: June 10, 2015 at 2:41 pm <> Depending on who you ask, building a new, publicly financed basketball stadium for the Milwaukee Bucks is either a horrendous example of corporate welfare and official corruption, or a chance to reinvigorate an economically depressed city. With the fate of Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker’s plan up in the air — hit by criticism from progressives and conservatives alike — the county held its first public meeting Tuesday night to discuss the proposal to use tens of millions of taxpayer dollars to keep the team in the city. The large crowd took issue with many aspects of the deal, which would sell public land valued at nearly $9 million for $1 dollar to the team’s billionaire owners. Earlier this month, Milwaukee County Executive Chris Abele, a key architect of the deal, promised the plan to build a brand new stadium close to the 27-year-old existing venue would “create jobs, generate millions of dollars in economic activity and property value, and provide a great return on investment for taxpayers.” Local Milwaukee blogs have raised questions about whether it would also be a great return on investment for Abele personally, given that he recently purchased a $2 million condo directly next to the site of the proposed arena and the restaurants and stores slated to surround it. “The appreciation for that condo will go sky-high,” Milwaukee economics professor Michael Rosen told ThinkProgress. “I’m not saying that’s why he bought it, but the fact is that will appreciate like crazy if the stadium gets built. He has an interest in this, even though his job as public official is to look out for this community.” Abele’s office did not respond to an interview request from ThinkProgress. Several local officials are also speaking out against the county’s promise to collect $4 million per year in unpaid debts from residents, plus a penalty fee of 15 percent, to contribute to the stadium. For example, a woman who owed $1,000 for an old traffic ticket would be charged $1,150. Milwaukee County Supervisor John Weishan, Jr. called the proposal to go after unpaid ambulance rides, delinquent property taxes and court fees “crony capitalism.” “This plan shifts the cost of the new arena from the state and the Milwaukee Bucks’ new wealthy owners to the poorest in our community,” he said. “I will not foreclose on someone’s home or shake down a senior for unpaid medical bills in order to build an arena for millionaires and billionaires.” Whether or not it’s morally right to collect these debts to pay for the stadium, some county officials say it may not be possible, because most of the residents that owe that money are indigent. County comptroller estimated in an official report that the county could only collect about 2 percent of the money they’re promising — in part because much of the unpaid court fees would go to restitution for victims of crimes if they ever got collected. “This is phony money. This is hocus-pocus,” Rosen told ThinkProgress. “They won’t be able to collect it, and if they do, it’s going to come from our poorest citizens, and that’s outrageous.” The scramble to find a source of revenue for the stadium is exacerbated by Governor Scott Walker’s pledge not to create any new taxes to pay for the project. But many lawmakers on both sides of the aisle remain critical of the plan, and say it’s inappropriate to tuck it into the must-pass state budget. A growing bloc of lawmakers are demanding a separate vote. <> "The large crowd took issue with many aspects of the deal, which would sell public land valued at nearly $9 million for $1 dollar to the team’s billionaire owners." Ya think? "Earlier this month, Milwaukee County Executive Chris Abele, a key architect of the deal, promised the plan to build a brand new stadium close to the 27-year-old existing venue would “create jobs, generate millions of dollars in economic activity and property value, and provide a great return on investment for taxpayers.” Local Milwaukee blogs have raised questions about whether it would also be a great return on investment for Abele personally, given that he recently purchased a $2 million condo directly next to the site of the proposed arena and the restaurants and stores slated to surround it." Can you say, "conflict of interest?" "Milwaukee County Supervisor John Weishan, Jr. called the proposal to go after unpaid ambulance rides, delinquent property taxes and court fees 'crony capitalism.' 'This plan shifts the cost of the new arena from the state and the Milwaukee Bucks’ new wealthy owners to the poorest in our community,' he said. 'I will not foreclose on someone’s home or shake down a senior for unpaid medical bills in order to build an arena for millionaires and billionaires.'" Good on ya, Supervisor Weishan! "The scramble to find a source of revenue for the stadium is exacerbated by Governor Scott Walker’s pledge not to create any new taxes to pay for the project. But many lawmakers on both sides of the aisle remain critical of the plan, and say it’s inappropriate to tuck it into the must-pass state budget. A growing bloc of lawmakers are demanding a separate vote." So much for the democratic process. Right, Governor Skippy? Anyone voting for this turd to become the GOP Presidential nominee is an idiot.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 The current venue is only 27 years old? Good grief. There have been numerous studies that debunk the idea that new sports venues generate nearly as much revenue as they always claim they will. At most, they shift it around, the city as a whole is no better off, powerful people get sweetheart deals, and the city's taxpayers are often OUT a bunch of money. Every deal is different, but it's a pretty consistent pattern.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Every sports team gets new-stadium-envy these days. Most existing facilities are either fine the way they are, or could be retrofitted with new accoutrements to make them up to par. But in our wasteful culture, we get bored with things rather quickly.
Originally Posted By ecdc Our culture has a *serious* sports problem. It's nuts. I've really enjoyed the NBA finals this year. Great games, fun to watch. There is precisely zero need for either team to get a new stadium.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 We've been paying a tax on Miller Park since 2001. It comes out to about 10 dollars per year. Most people don't even think about or even notice the tax. The same thing will happen here. Plus this city needs some kick in the rear to get our downtown going. It's pretty much a ghost town. Most people when they go somewhere they hit the suburbs or the outlying areas of town It may only be 27 years old but the Bradley Center is a dump
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <Most people don't even think about or even notice the tax. > But why should you pay it at all? The people who will benefit from a new stadium should pay for it. The studies consistently show that the average citizen doesn't benefit, despite claims that they do.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Most people don't even think about or even notice the tax.<< I bet more than a few people notice it when someone proposes a yearly $10 tax increase to fund a museum or a homeless shelter, and we get to hear all about how our taxes and government shouldn't be funding art or giving away money to poor people. But a shiny new sports arena for rich people to watch games and middle-class people to watch them on TV? That's what government's all about!
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Unfortunately professional sports franchises are limited and the demand for them is huge. This allows owners to hold cities hostage with threats to leave if they don't get a new stadium/arena. I don't like it one little bit, but what can you do? For many people it really is a "quality of life" issue. The enjoyment provided and pride felt when your team does well makes little rational sense, but exists just the same. It is hard to even think of Chicago without the Cubs.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 If the deal falls through the Bucks are as good as gone. I'm not the biggest NBA fan, but I am a fan of the team and want them to stay. Like it or not a professional sports especially multiple lends credibility to your city
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Sometimes politicians need to stand up to sports team owners. Steinbrenner threatened as loudly and publicly as he could to move the Yankees to New Jersey if he didn't get a 2 billion dollar retractable roof palace built in Manhattan of all places. Guiliani was a lapdog for the Yankees, and tried to push it through. Luckily, the city council blocked it. Not only would the taxpayers have been out a bundle for essentially no benefit compared to the status quo, but the traffic nightmare around a Manhattan stadium would have been unspeakable. It's bad enough in the Bronx (even with several subway lines right by Yankee Stadium, most people from the burbs drive). In the end, of course, Steinbrenner backed down and didn't move. The bully got his bluff called. He got a new stadium anyway, but much less expensive, and the team had to pay more than he wanted (though we taxpayers were still stuck for plenty).
Originally Posted By RoadTrip But you never know what will happen. That is how Minnesota lost the North Stars to Dallas. They spent years trying to get another team and ended up building a new arena for the Wild anyway.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "Unfortunately professional sports franchises are limited and the demand for them is huge. This allows owners to hold cities hostage with threats to leave if they don't get a new stadium/arena. I don't like it one little bit, but what can you do?" Treat it like Los Angeles treats the NFL.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Oh. You mean steal the Rams back from St. Louis with the offer of a new stadium? That's just what they are doing. And St. Louis will probably lose them because although the governor supports a new stadium, the legislature does not.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 As a sports fan, I get why cities want sports teams. But LA lost the Rams and has had no NFL team for far longer than anyone predicted (20 years!). And didn't exactly suffer. The NFL itself is desirous that the country's second largest market have a team. That's why they're talking to and trying to grease the wheels of at least 3 teams (5 according to some reports, though the Jags and Vikes are unlikely) to get them to move.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip The Vikings better not leave Minnesota... I'm surprised it would even be considered a possibility by anyone. In 2016 they will move into a new BILLION DOLLAR stadium, with half that funding provided by the State and the City of Minneapolis.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Yeah, I don't think the Vikes and Jags have been considered real possibilities for at least a couple of years. But it just goes to show you how much the NFL itself wants a team (maybe 2) in LA, that they (quietly) encouraged these talks between all these teams and various LA factions trying to get something done.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I do think having a pro sports team can enhance the quality of life as well as build community spirit for a city, especially second-tier cities. A stadium also provides jobs (mostly low paying ones, but a job is a job). It would be nice if more stadium deals relied far less on public funding, but cities make all sorts of deals to attract various businesses and industries and compete with other towns, so it's similar with sports.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck You should see what Nevada did to bring in Tesla. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.5 billion in incentives and tax breaks. They figure that each job Tesla "creates" will cost the state 200 grand. Makes a sports stadium seem downright cheap.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 Reports are that it's going to pass. Which again I'm fine with, this downtown needs a kick in the pants
Originally Posted By ecdc Except studies show new stadiums don't reinvigorate downtowns, because, as John Oliver said on his show this week, no one says, "Hey, let's go hang out in the area around the stadium." America, where we'll gladly pay taxes to build new sports arenas, but where we'd rather shame the poor than give them so much as a dime. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcwJt4bcnXs
