Originally Posted By RoadTrip A couple of Headlines from today that literally made me ill: <<Nearly 4 in 10 U.S. babies born out of wedlock>> <<Half U.S. abortions are repeats for women>> Sources: <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15835429/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15 835429/</a> <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15841448/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15 841448/</a> Something is seriously wrong here, and I don't think either political party has a clue about what to do. I do know where I would start: 1) Only allow one out of wedlock child in the calculation of AFDC benefits. This would protect divorced women left on their own but would limit baby-making as a revenue source. 2) Only allow one abortion per woman with no strings attached. Subsequent abortions could be done only to save the live of the mother of if the woman agreed to sterilization immediately after the abortion was performed.
Originally Posted By mrichmondj I guess I don't get it. Why is this a problem? How many of the 6 in 10 babies born in wedlock are abused by their parents or end up in a single parent home as a result of divorce? How many of the 6 in 10 babies born in wedlock aren't being fed or clothed sufficiently? A well revered economist recently published a blockbuster book on the bestseller's list that thoughtfully, and factually described the precipitous drop in crime in the 1990s to the fact that Roe v. Wade in the 70s allowed all the would-be criminals to disappear because they had been aborted instead. How do we counteract the ill effects of all the unwanted, uncared for, and unloved babies being born again when we seek to restrict access to abortions again?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I guess I don't get it. Why is this a problem?>> I don't know where to start. I guess I'm just a confused moderate. Virtually every study out there shows the biggest single factor predicting everything from poverty to criminal actions is being born out of wedlock. Why would you NOT want to do anything you could to eliminate it? As for abortion... anyone can make a mistake and should not be held responsible for it the first time. After that, what is WRONG with these people? I've had a very active sex life for almost 40 years and never had a child I did not intend. If a person can't figure it out after one mistake they are obviously too fricken stupid to be allowed to have any more children.
Originally Posted By jonvn The out of wedlock thing may be deceiving. Could it be that people are just not getting married as they used to and having children anyway as a couple? What will slow abortion is proper sex education in this country. Stop treating sex like it was some horrible thing to be avoided, and instead teach kids how to act responsibly and do the right thing to avoid pregnancy and disease. Instead of watching normal human behavior on TV, like sex, or seeing human beings with no clothes on, instead we can see murders and slash victims and violence of all kinds. It's repugnant, and twisted. What is WRONG with these people? They are Americans, that's what is wrong with them, and they are victims of a society very messed up about sexuality.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<The out of wedlock thing may be deceiving. Could it be that people are just not getting married as they used to and having children anyway as a couple?>> No, not really. That would account for a VERY small percentage of the children I'm talking about. You know as well as I that the vast majority of these kids are born into single parent families. A kid should have two parents in a committed relationship. I don't care if that means a man and a woman, two women, or two men. But every study ever done shows that two parents are better than one.
Originally Posted By DlandJB Did the study mention economic conditions of the unmarried mothers? I didn't think it did. You assume they are poor, but it would be interesting to see for sure. As for limiting aid, the only ones that suffer are the children in that case. It was interesting to note that these are not teen pregnancies in the majority.
Originally Posted By jonvn "You know as well as I that the vast majority of these kids are born into single parent families." Actually, I don't know that, and was asking. It's just another example of the disintegration of American society. In this case, though, we really encourage this through our welfare. We encourage this sort of thing by giving people more money for more kids with no limits. Welfare reform is always a hot topic at election time, but nothing ever seems to be done about it.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<In this case, though, we really encourage this through our welfare. We encourage this sort of thing by giving people more money for more kids with no limits.>> I agree. Which is exactly why I made the suggestion I did? It would not cure the problem, but I think it would certainly help.
Originally Posted By jonvn I think you don't get any extra money for kids. At all. As for abortion, I don't have a problem with it. Because if you don't have abortion, you just end up with more kids.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<As for abortion, I don't have a problem with it. Because if you don't have abortion, you just end up with more kids.>> I have a problem with it because I consider it to be taking a human life. Now I don't feel I have a right to force my belief on others, so I would not restrict any FIRST abortions for a woman. But it should be recognized that abortion is an emergency solution that should be rarely used. When you look at statistics showing that a relatively low percentage of women have abortions, and then see statistics showing that almost 50% of all abortions are SECOND abortions, you know something is wrong. There appear to be a significant number of people seeking abortions who are using it as a form of birth control rather than as an emergency measure. Sure... many of them SAY they were using another contraceptive method. Right. What was it... hoping the guy wore a rubber? Being on the pill but not bothering to take it half the time? There are many methods of birth control today that are highly effective. Anyone who can't figure it out is dumb as a rock and shouldn't be having kids anyway.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I consider it to be taking a human life." I don't. On the other hand, it is surgery, and easily preventable. It is beyond stupid to keep having abortions when you can avoid getting pregnant through about ten million different methods of birth control.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Anyone who can't figure it out is dumb as a rock and shouldn't be having kids anyway.<< That's kind of the conundrum, isn't it.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<That's kind of the conundrum, isn't it.>> Yes. This is why I suggest giving two time losers one last abortion and then sterilization. That will prevent future abortions for those refusing to take responsibility for themselves without restricting abortion for those who really need it.
Originally Posted By DlandJB I do find it somewhat amusing, in a sad way, when men decide how women should be punished for getting pregnant.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Yes. This is why I suggest giving two time losers one last abortion and then sterilization. That will prevent future abortions for those refusing to take responsibility for themselves without restricting abortion for those who really need it." Without commenting more, the sterilization idea would never fly. It's been tried in Wisconsin as a way to prevent fathers from having more kids they couldn't support and it was overruled. Constitutionally, people have a right to procreate.
Originally Posted By jonvn I'm not saying anyone should be punished. That does not mean they should be rewarded, however. I certainly wouldn't force sterilize anyone.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I do find it somewhat amusing, in a sad way, when men decide how women should be punished for getting pregnant.>> I don't. Women do have ULTIMATE control regardless of what a guy does or does not do. A woman can swear to a guy that she is on birth control while lying her butt off. If the guy proceeds under that misinformation and gets her pregnant, he is going to have to pay child support in spite of her lie. If the woman gets pregnant and WANTS an abortion; the guy is given no right whatsoever to oppose that decision. Basically, guys are screwed. If he didn't want the kid and was lied to he is forced to pay child support. If after getting the woman pregnant he does want the kid he has no voice in that either. Sorry... in many areas I would acknowledge that women are put in a lesser position. Not when it comes to procreation. In that area the woman holds all the power and the man gets screwed.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I couldn't disagree more, RT. I think it's the carelessness that young men engage in sex, with no thought of the consequences, that is at the heart of this problem. I think one of the major ways we could improve the sex ed that's being taught in schools is by really and truly stressing male responsibility.
