Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/10/maine.dems/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITI CS/02/10/maine.dems/index.html</a> As excited as I am by Obama's success, I'm also getting nervous. The longer the Obama/Clinton battle continues, the worse it gets for Democrats. I'm starting to get visions of yet another Democratic implosion and giving away an election that should easily be theirs. Now there's talk of bringing Florida or Michigan back into play, where Obama didn't even campaign (and wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan, I believe). Lobbying super-delegates is hardly a way to unify the party, too. But I don't see the Clinton's backing off one iota. Here's hoping Obama takes Texas, Ohio, and Pennsylvania in March, but it's an uphill battle.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 Again, as someone from Illinois who has watched this man become so very popular - except for moving oratory, why ? Hannah Montana also the highest concert ticket price right now, doesn't make her the best singer or musician. Yet a huge bandwagon right now. The bandwagon for Obama mystifies me based on what he has done ( or hasn't done ). Now I don't think he's a horrible person, or an unthinkable choice etc. -- just don't get the hysteria. At least not at this stage of his career. He's likeable and well spoken -no doubt. But someone help me what part of his background / platform has the captivated everyone ? Somehow I have missed it here.
Originally Posted By Mr X What in particular has Clinton really done though vbdad? I realize she keeps pounding the "25 years of experience" or whatever, but frankly I find that to be a lie. I'm sorry, but "first lady" is not a political position that I consider particularly valid, and interestingly her one big "project" as first lady, the health care thing, failed. I think at this point oratory IS pretty important as far as getting America back on track morale-wise and maybe, just maybe, start turning the tide of world opinion back in our favor a little bit.
Originally Posted By ecdc vbdad, at this point I think Obama is our best hope to unite the country. I think Hillary would be a fine President, but plenty of Republicans hate her with a passion best reserved for someone like bin Laden. I think McCain might not be too bad, either, but he's hardly inspiring. I think Obama would surround himself with intelligent policymakers and experienced people. I think your same charges of "what has he done" could be levied at many Presidents - some good, some terrible. We've probably had few Presidents with as much experience as Richard Nixon. Lincoln had almost none. Don't sell the ability to inspire people short.
Originally Posted By Mr X I agree, ecdc...and the American people sure could use some optimistic "new blood" to inspire us I think. Obama reminds me of Clinton and Kennedy (and even Reagan) in that respect.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<Again, as someone from Illinois who has watched this man become so very popular - except for moving oratory, why?>> Two Words: Integrity. And Integrity. Neither of which Clinton can boast. In my mind, neither of the Democratic candidates trumps the other based on experience. Neither of them has had the experience of being the President of the US. Okay, okay, Hillary was married to one. So... a couple of points there to her. Both candidates are intelligent. And intelligent enough to surround themselves with advisors to make up for what they lack. Even draw. Except... I see Obama spending the first four years using his power to make things as good as he can for US citizens. I see Clinton spending the first four years using her power to make sure she gets elected for the next four years. It's a virtual tie when it comes to intelligence, experience, and Not Being Bush. But when you factor in sincerity, it's a no-brainer.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka I think people are staring to want to vote for Obama because he does seem new. He doesn't seem as much as part of the old as Hillary does. I don't mean age wise, just part of the same old goverment that many people are completely disillusioned with. People are sick of what's happening and want something different, they want "change". Plus, after 8 years of listening to a President who isn't a great orator...maybe that's all people want at this point. Not sure a President can make worse choices but at least he won't be painful to listen to.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<Not sure a President can make worse choices but at least he won't be painful to listen to.>> LOL! But there's actually something to that. Bush's stupidity and inarticulateness have been kind of an inside joke in the US. "Did you hear what he said NOW?! What a moron! LOL!" "OMG, he's sounding more like a Texan than ever. What a jerk." Etc. WE have been able to realize that he is a cowboy who's in over his head, and WE have been able (forced) to roll our eyes. The rest of the world didn't get that. They don't discern between Texan bravado and the sensibility of everyone else in the US. Muslims didn't hear his ignorant post-9/11 statements and realize that he wasn't speaking for the rest of us. Etc., etc. Having a President who's not "painful to listen to" would be a really refreshing change for us. More importantly, though, having a President who doesn't sound incredibly stupid every time he opens his mouth is vitally important to our establishing our place in the world community.
Originally Posted By jonvn Any of the three leading candidates from both parties will be a major improvement over what is there now. So there is cause for optimism.
Originally Posted By Mr X I agree with that! Heck, I'd take pretty much any human with a pulse over what we have now! lol. My greatest fear was that Bush would take a third term...granted not a likely scenario, but if something else were to go badly wrong I could imagine that guy would invoke the "wartime" song and insist the country needed him. No thanks!
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Of course, with a more well-spoken president, David Letterman's "Great Moments in Presidential Speeches" segments might fall by the wayside. Luckily, there is ample content still in the President Bush archives that should keep the segment going at least 8 more years! ; )
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy I think whoever the next President is will be challenged to make it through 4 years on any sort of positive note. GWB has already set up the next administration for total failure with the ongoing war in Iraq, economy headed into the toilet, and ballooning budget deficits. It's quite a mess to clean up and will only get worse before it gets better. The demographic time bomb of the Baby Boomers really starts to kick in soon, and that will be another nail in the coffin for the U.S. government and national economy. I think Obama will be the worst candidate in this environment. He is the idealist and the "outsider," much like Jimmy Carter in the late 1970s. Obama stands a good chance of being the next Jimmy Carter, if elected. If that turns out to be the case, it will set the Democratic Party back for another 20 years or so. Everyone thinks the Republicans will be split because McCain has so much ire from the conservatives. However, I think this is a calculated strategy on the part of the social conservatives. They would much rather have a moderate in the White House during this upcoming period so that when that person fails, they can ratchet up their propaganda on how we need a strong social conservative come back in and fix things. If they put a conservative in now, it doesn't help their effort 4 years from now. I don't think Hillary Clinton will be able to solve any of our problems, and she'll likely come out looking just as bad as anyone who has to deal with this mess. However, I do believe that she does have the political savvy and organization to at least get to work very early in her administration. I do think it is imperative that our next President is aggressive very early after they are elected. There's no time to dilly dally with making the executive branch appointments and learning the ropes of how to run a White House staff. For those that remember 7 years in the past, GWB didn't do anything except cut taxes for his first 9 months in office. He didn't even have all of his appointments made by the time 9/11 came around. It's actually one of the criticisms in the 9/11 aftermath -- that the administration just wasn't ready to get to work on some of the warning signs that preceded the terrorist attacks. They were still busy with the mundane tasks of organizing their administration to actually take action on these sorts of things. I don't think a Clinton White House will be very slow to get out of the gate. That could be the one plus that saves the next administration from dismal failure. But, either way, the odds are not in favor of the next President. At best, they'll be remembered like Jimmy Carter. At worst, we might see the next Herbert Hoover.
Originally Posted By gadzuux I believe that if hillary makes it to the oval office, the remaining republicans in DC will be so contentious that they'll create roadblocks for any meaningful legislation or reform. I don't see that they would be quite as obstructionist with an obama administration. But I've been wrong before.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan ^ ^ ^ No disrespect intended, but if I had that grim a view of things, I couldn't get out of bed in the morning. We have a pretty amazing history in the country of beating pessimistic predictions. That isn't to say the next 4 years will be easy, or that any challenge can be beaten simply with a fiddle-dee-dee rosy outlook. But pragmatism mixed with optimism does wonders, while pragmatism mixed with pessimism feeds upon and perpetuates itself, and is the surest path to self-fulfilling prophecy.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << We have a pretty amazing history in the country of beating pessimistic predictions. >> I don't disagree. It takes time to get out of these situations though. A number of our current problems have been brewing over the course of decades. We haven't done much to solve them. It's not likely 4 years will be enough time to get the ship turned around and to the point of smooth sailing. These things take time -- more than 4 years.
Originally Posted By DAR This country has gone through some tough times throughout its young history. We've gotten through those, we'll get past whatever problems we have now.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy ^^ We haven't even had the "tough" times that are coming yet. This is just turbulence compared to the medicine that needs to be taken to get things on the right track again.
Originally Posted By DAR Oh I don't know, I'd rank that little skirmish we had between the North and South circa 1861-1865 as something worse. Or two World Wars, Vietnam and the Great Depression as anything worse we have going on right now. The problem and this is something we do need to address, is that the current generation we have don't really know the value of hard work or know how to handle adversity. We've become a nation that thinks it's entitled to its way of life. So we've got to change the mindset that things are going to be rough but if you work through it, it will be okay in the end. It might be hard to ask for, but I have faith that we can do it.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Don't sell the ability to inspire people short.< I don't but this country is in real trouble and the wrong time to roll the dice, IMHO. <Obama reminds me of Clinton and Kennedy (and even Reagan) in that respect.< Clinton and Reagan ran states before office, and the constant comparisons to Kennedy just don't cut it for me. Way different time for our country right now - Kennedy there is a time of prosperity as a nation, world dominance in manufacturing - etc.. I just don't think a great speachmaker is going to address the issues we have today. Again, nothing personal against Obama- I just think the timing is bad.
