Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/24499690#24499690" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21...24499690</a> The link is to video of Russert being interviewed and it shows a clip of his comments last night. They really were remarkable; he compared Hillary Clinton to a great sports figure that has to ponder retirement and how difficult it is. After last night, she can no longer claim to have the lead in the popular vote (which she could only do before by counting Florida and Michigan). Obama now leads in popular vote, pledged delegates, and states won. After last night, it's probably only a matter of time before he leads in super delegates as well. Of course, Tim Russert isn't the decider here. Hillary Clinton looks like she's going forward, but now she has absolutely nothing in her pocket to convince the super delegates that she's deserving of their support for the nomination.
Originally Posted By DisneyFreak96 I just finished watching that myself. I agree with him, myself. However, I don't think she is going to leave the race until the convention is over. I think she will hold out for the party to back her, even if it hurts the party in the long run.
Originally Posted By DlandDug I saw it last night live. What Russert also pointed out was that Clinton had canceled her various media appearances for Wednesday. That lead him to believe that even she knew there was no way to put a good spin on the election results. It is clear that she will keep in the race, though. I am inclined to believe she is now running for 2012. She will still go back to the Senate, but for now she has a much, much larger arena in which to garner attention. There is also a theory that she is staying on in order to further weaken Obama. That would lead to a McCain victory this year, and leave the field wide open for Hillary in 2012. If there is any truth to this will be seen in how much support she actually gives nominee Obama.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder I think she's finally done. She might not. If she's truly out to weaken Obama, a cheap and disloyal ploy, then Obama should back in her a corner and offer her the V.P. slot. If she accepts, so much for 2012. If she doesn't, maybe she gets exposed somewhat.
Originally Posted By DisneyFreak96 According to the AP, she is going to stay in. <<WASHINGTON - Hillary Rodham Clinton says she will remain in the presidential race "until there's a nominee." The former first lady declined to say whether that meant through the roll call of the states at the Democratic National Convention this summer.>> <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24500688/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24500688/</a> So yeah, I think she is willing to continue to weaken Obama.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Which in turn means that she's willing to place her own interests above that of the party and the nation. And to what end? She's not going to get the nomination. But she is going to continue to hobble the democratic candidate. Is this spite? Is that a presidential trait? What about these people (largely women) who say that they'll vote for mccain over obama. Why? Both obama and clinton are nearly aligned on most major issues, and mccain is way over on the other side of the spectrum. So why would these people say that they'll vote for "the other guy" if hillary doesn't get the nomination? McCain would continue with the iraq war, continue with deficit spending, snf appoint judges that would imperil a woman's right to choose. But no matter - the first viable woman candidate didn't get the nomination, so they'll shun her opponent - no matter what his policies are. Or - they won't. They'll come to their senses and vote their own best interests. Either way, hillary's out and given her actions over the past several months, we as a nation are better off for it.
Originally Posted By DAR Are Democratic voters going to want to go through this again in either 2012 or if they don't win in November 2016? I have to imagine people are getting fatigued at this point.
Originally Posted By oc_dean FYI .... this is simple. She knows she has to bow out. BUT LOOK .... She has a debt, that needs to be paid off. She can't admit it ..... but before she can officially bow out ....She has to continue with her fundraisers to pay off those debts. Or pay as much as she can toward them. Hello President Obama
Originally Posted By gadzuux I wonder if obama wouldn't be willing to assume her debt just to get her out of the way. He's rolling in dough. It'd be money well spent.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan The sensible thing, of course, would be for her to make a graceful exit and get to work helping the Democrat party win in November. Even if they don't win, her showing that she can be a "good soldier" would go a long way towards setting her up nicely for a future run. But that doesn't seem to be the Clintons' style. Sensible is a foreign concept to them, and they'd much rather stay in the spotlight as long as possible at all costs. And if she keeps at this pointless campaign all the way to the convention, and the Democrats wind up losing, the Clintons will get full blame.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 My guess is she continues to try to win WV, KY and Puerto Rico (all of which should be easy pickings for her), not even try to win Oregon, MT or SD, and at least stay in through June 3, hoping against hope that something really bad happens to Obama and she can ride into Denver and be the party's savior. If nothing catastrophic happens to Obama before June 3, I think she still doesn't officially concede (still waiting for that catastrophe), but stops actively campaigning and actively trashing Obama - doing so after Obama wraps up the nomination, which will probably happen between now and June 3 when enough superdelegates declare - would just be beyond the pale with most Democrats. She can spin not conceding as "wanting to have a voice for our concerns at the convention" or some such. At the convention she gets a prime slot, and assuming Obama is still okay politically, makes a big deal about unifying the party at the end. By keeping a little doubt alive she holds open the possibility of "saving" the party if Obama gets in trouble, and remains a really important person for a couple more months (which I think her ego will like), while keeping plausible deniability that she's doing anything to hurt Obama. That's my guess as of today, anyway.
Originally Posted By oc_dean Again ... I think it only comes down to her needing to pay back some debt hanging on to her from her campaign! It's into the millions! But how she's going to manage to keep this going for a few more weeks to do some fundraisers is a tricky thing. How she convinces anyone to keep it going (to pay some people back) ????? We'll see. The pressure may be too great .. and she'll have that debt hanging over her.
Originally Posted By planodisney Obama has money and media behind him. That will be tough to overcome. I have been amazed to watch him outspend Clinton 3 to 1 the last 2 months, along wih the liberal media pushing him along every step of the way, yet he has been loosing every important state in this period. She is one tough fighter, and he is just a black version of wimpy liberals like Kerry and Dukakis. Bill was a political genious, and he is a fighter. Obama has a little of the first and none of the latter. He will need evry bit of that money and media power behind him. I think NBC should just go ahead and change their logo from a Peacock to an Obama 08 sign.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Everybody says hillary is a "fighter". At least the did since she started calling herself one. Yet she's not the only one who's been actively campaigning for well over a year. The big difference is that she lost. Yet the candidate who beat her is a wimp. Good reasoning. And maybe having a news network in your corner is a handy thing for a president - it seems to have worked wonders for bush.
Originally Posted By planodisney There is no doubt FOX leans right, but NBC downright campaigns for the liberal agenda. Lets be honest Gadzuux, he has realy backed into the nomination. If the Democrats held a normal primary,winner take all like the national election, and if Michigan and Florida were in the mix, she would come out on top when all was said and done. Heck, we have 2 more states coming up in the next couple of weaks and she will probably clean his clock in both, even with much of the media already declaring him the victor. If what people know about who Obama is now, had come out early in the primary, he wouldnt be where he is right now. I honestly do not dislike Obama, but am bothered by MANY on the left who are more infatuated with proving how intellectually evolved they are by casting a vote for Obama, than if he is better qualified to run this country than Hillary or McCain.
Originally Posted By ecdc Another interesting theory is that Hillary will slow down or stop the "real" campaigning - the public appearances at rallies across states, the TV ads, etc., and ramp up her fundraising campaigning. She's now loaned her campaign around 10 million, and she'll be wanting to get that back. She can't do that as easily if she concedes, so it's possible she'll stay in to get some more dough.
Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/08/us/politics/08campaign.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05...f=slogin</a> This is a good summary of the last two days in the New York Times. I liked this part, and it's why I continue to think Obama really is different: >>But Mr. Obama issued a directive, aides said, to maintain a tone respectful of Mrs. Clinton and her supporters in the days ahead.<< While the Clintons jump on every opportunity to rail on Obama, he has refused to stoop to their level. At times I worry that this approach will end up costing him the election, but I admire him for sticking with it.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>if Michigan and Florida were in the mix, she would come out on top when all was said and done.<< If, if, if. While "change" is Obama's word, "if" belongs to Hillary. The truth is she ran a campaign that was all over the map, ever shifting to find her "voice". Dabob has it right -- Clinton at this point has one hope -- that Obama will majorly screw up, and she can be there waiting in the wings. Then who will be "backing into" the nomination?
Originally Posted By WorldDisney Yeah, it's over! Everyone seems to realize that, at least people of importance but her. Half of her supporters have jumped to Obama's side, McCain is more and more aiming his attacks at Obama now, Hillary only sporadically. People have been calling for her to get out and every media pundit out there has said the same thing, she simply don't have the numbers. She has not caught up to Obama in any significant way even though she has won bigger states, but has lost delegates and the popular vote and the superdelegates are shrinking by the day. And yes, the most important problem and the thing that keeps people regardless of talent and qualification and that is MONEY!!!! Seriously, unless they find Obama with a sex tape getting it on with an underage boy talking about how much he believes Pasor Wright was correct while dressed up in Muslim gear, I doubt there is anything major that is going to sway the voters at this point. The 'bitter' comments and Wright changed the conversation for awhile, but not long enough. Really, this woman will be fighting until Nov. 7th if that was possible, but all she is doing is hurting the party and the chance that we won't take back the White House come this fall. I hope she comes to her senses SOON and do the right thing and simply step aside.
