Originally Posted By DDMAN26 <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/police-occupy-protesters-clash-oakland-072458892.html?bouchon=807,ca" target="_blank">http://news.yahoo.com/police-o...n=807,ca</a> There is simply no other way to say it. These are not people concerned with the plight of everyday Americans. These people are thugs pure and simple.
Originally Posted By PotNoodle For a divergent point of view, may I suggest you read _Poor Peoples' Movements_ by Fox-Piven and Cloward? Alinksy's _Rules for Radicals_ is also a timely read.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 No I'm going to call it for what it is thug behavior. The actions taken here are thug behavior. And then there's this little nugget of joy: <a href="http://abcnews.go.com/US/sexual-assaults-occupy-wall-street-camps/story?id=14873014" target="_blank">http://abcnews.go.com/US/sexua...14873014</a> Yeah yeah I know it's a small portion of the movement itself. However and you all know that I never threw in with them. But if any these acts happened at a Tea Party rally, the you-know-what would be hitting the fan.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 Getting back to the Oakland thug movement. What's the deal with blocking the port? Hey jackholes, you were protesting that the 1% are destroying the lives of the 99%, then what the hell are you doing.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 in Chicago they are demanding a permanent place to gather and sleep at night- really, for every person in there with good intentions, I also believe there are at least an equal amount of idiots who have no real idea why they're there...and whether planned or not, the news seems to find them eachnight.
Originally Posted By gadzuux "These people" are a small sub-contingent of a group of thousands of people. You shouldn't be in such a hurry to group them together. Yes, some windows got smashed and some walls got graffitied. I'd like it if this group were better at self policing and identifying the anarchists within their group. The problem seems to be that the rough-and-tumble types tend to infiltrate well after midnight. And it's no surprise that it's the usual suspects every time. Not long ago, Oakland was the scene of several demonstrations that turned ugly over a shooting of a passenger on the local subway. Trash cans set afire, cop cars overturned and torched, stores looted. Days later cops found some numbskull trying to sell two left Nike sneakers on the street. You're right - these are not 'legitimate' protesters, but sociopaths that are piggy-backing onto a larger movement to cloak their actions. But this in no way undermines the larger movement. The people protesting are nurses and teachers and students with legitimate grievances, and they're not going to get derailed over a small sub-contingent of sociopaths within their midst. You seek to discredit an entire movement based upon the actions of a handful. Which puts you squarely on the side of inequity and status quo. Is that where you want to be?
Originally Posted By DyGDisney >>>Getting back to the Oakland thug movement. What's the deal with blocking the port? Hey jackholes, you were protesting that the 1% are destroying the lives of the 99%, then what the hell are you doing. <<< Exactly what I was saying the other day. Having a relative who works at the port of Oakland this frustrates me to no end. If they are protesting Wall Street and their involvement in government, why keep the average, hard working person from making a living. I'm sorry, but I have to agree with DDMAN, this group in Oakland has been taken over by the thug mentality, but such it is in Oakland. I mean, the BART shooting was the prime example. The protestors there were protesting the judge's verdict by destroying and LOOTING businesses in their OWN town. How does this affect the BART cops, the jury or the judge in the verdict?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip If people at a Tea Party rally had done this, would we be giving the Tea Party a free pass on the issue? No we would not. I don't understand the double standard.
Originally Posted By HongKongFoooy because tea people have a more conservative agenda whereas occupiors are a hogpog of malcontents whose only unifiing effort is their disdain of wealth, especailly corporate wealth tied to washington. it's easy to understand: double standard applies when the two participants are #conservatives# and #other than conservatives#. sorry about all that, your Lowden
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Wow. Not one consideration that these so-called "thugs" might be hired guns to deliberately give the Occupy Movement a public opinion black eye. And there are plenty in power who do not want to see OWS grow and gain in popularity and support. Sure, there will always be anarchists showing up to events like these, simply to destroy property and act out their anger and frustration through violent acts. And I'm confident that many if not most of them are not there simply to do the dirty deeds of those who hate the Occupy Movement and want to shut it down or at least discredit it. But these troublemakers are a very small minority of the Occupiers, so sweeping generalizations like DD is making need to be avoided. Do not judge the actions and motivations of the vast majority of Occupiers based on a small minority of jerks and possibly hired thugs who are hell bent to be violent no matter what.
Originally Posted By fkurucz IIRC the Oakland Police seriously wounded a protestor who turned out to be a middle east war veteran. The 1%'ers are getting worried and want to shut down OWS now.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan The people causing mayhem and violence in these protests are the same kinds of people who cause mayhem and violence following Super Bowl victory celebrations. The crowd provides them the opportunity to stir up problems and destroy things. They really don't need a reason, just the opportunity. I don't think they're paid by anybody -- they just want to tear stuff up, and the size of the otherwise peaceful protests afford them that opportunity.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 << And I'm confident that many if not most of them are not there simply to do the dirty deeds of those who hate the Occupy Movement and want to shut it down or at least discredit it.>> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYHNMLcHHnE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...NMLcHHnE</a> And yet if just one person at a Tea Party rally had a sign portraying the President as a simian it somehow represents the whole movement. Offensive yes, but it no way represents anything close to criminal behavior in Oakland. Or then there's this: <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/kitchen-volunteers-sex-assault-arrest-shocks-zuccotti-park-215348689.html" target="_blank">http://news.yahoo.com/kitchen-...689.html</a> And this: <a href="http://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=83488" target="_blank">http://www.idsnews.com/news/st...id=83488</a> And this: <a href="http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/10/occupy-boston-protesters-arrested-for-dealing-heroin-with-6-year-old-in-tent/" target="_blank">http://www.thegatewaypundit.co...in-tent/</a> Pow: <a href="http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/10/24/accusations-of-teen-runaway-sexual-activity-at-occupy-dallas/" target="_blank">http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/1...-dallas/</a> Kaboom: <a href="http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=131812759149188600" target="_blank">http://www.portlandtribune.com...49188600</a> Zipow <a href="http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_19124616" target="_blank">http://www.denverpost.com/brea...19124616</a> Hey hey <a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20122659-504083.html" target="_blank">http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-50...083.html</a> Mmm hmmm <a href="http://articles.baltimoresun.com/2011-10-19/news/bs-md-ci-occupy-baltimore-rape-20111019_1_sexual-assaults-sexual-abuse-report-crimes" target="_blank">http://articles.baltimoresun.c...t-crimes</a> And finally: <a href="http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/crime/arrest-in-occupy-austin-knife-incident" target="_blank">http://www.kxan.com/dpp/news/c...incident</a> So show me the criminal behavior that occurred at any Tea Party rally.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>And yet if just one person at a Tea Party rally had a sign portraying the President as a simian it somehow represents the whole movement.<< So when a Super Bowl celebration turns ugly, is it fair to say that represents all of a team's fans? Or sports fans in general?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan What also counts is the reaction of others in the protests. Did they cheer or join in when the mayhem started? It seems not. Then ask yourself, did anyone at a Tea party event where people held up signs of Obama as Hitler or whatever tell them to knock it off? Or did they laugh and cheer?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan And I ask because I am not 100% behind the whole occupy thing because they haven't fully articulated what exactly they have in mind. Like much of the early Tea Party stuff, it's kind of anything you want it to be at this point. Is there a double standard base don one's political leanings? You bet. You'll also note that right off, Fox News and other right wing media portrayed the occupyers as jobless bums. At that point, there had been no violence of any kind. Compare that to their love of the Tea Partiers as "great Americans." Double standards indeed.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Is there a double standard base don one's political leanings? You bet. You'll also note that right off, Fox News and other right wing media portrayed the occupyers as jobless bums. At that point, there had been no violence of any kind. Compare that to their love of the Tea Partiers as "great Americans." Double standards indeed.>> I hate to see the liberal viewpoint sink to the same level of that of Fox News. To maintain credibility liberals have to call out senseless violence whenever it occurs.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan That is happening in Oakland. The Occupy folks are saying that the violence is not what they're about.
Originally Posted By HongKongFoooy ## Then ask yourself, did anyone at a Tea party event where people held up signs of Obama as Hitler or whatever tell them to knock it off? Or did they laugh and cheer?## reminds me of when our towers fell to the ground and 3000 died and muslims in different parts of the world cheered, but not all cheerred. the ones that didn't laugh and cheer just watched those that did and didn't try to stop it. bringing up something hard to swallow may actually help us accept a few things
