Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/13/katrina.congress/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITI CS/02/13/katrina.congress/index.html</a> As the report says, over 4 years removed from 9/11 and we're still not prepared for a major disaster. What's worse, we knew this one was coming. Bush, the Republican-led report says, "was less than fully involved." Chertoff was "detached" and Michael Brown was "clueless." This report is scathing.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Accountability is a dirty word in the bush administration. There is none. People died due to their bungling - who cares - point that finger somewhere else.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Gadzuux, do you blame the Govenor of Louisianna and the Mayor of N. O. ?
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> The president's homeland security adviser, Frances Townsend, took issue with the suggestion that Bush not fully involved, saying the president was "hotly engaged" in the hurricane preparation efforts and in dealing with the storm's aftermath. "I reject outright the suggestion that President Bush was anything less than fully involved," she said. << This is almost certainly an outright lie. It would be laughable if the circumstances weren't so serious. Bush has publicly stated that "we didn't know the levees were breached until tuesday" - when anyone with a TV set knew it on monday morning - it was there for all to see. The e-mail trail shows that the white house was notified monday morning. How "hotly engaged" could bush be (on vacation in crawford texas) if it took twenty four hours before he even realized it? And then said . . . NOTHING! What did the president do? NOTHING! On wednesday he flew to san diego (dodging cindy sheehan who was sitting in a lawn chair at the end of the road) and gave an inconsequential speech comparing iraqi veterans to WWII veterans, with a quick preamble about having a prayer for the gulf coast victims. This is "hotly engaged"? So what did the president know, and when did he know it? If the white house has their way, we'll never find out. The white house is still refusing to provide documents that would help the committee to re-construct the timeline. They won't even cooperate with a GOP led investigation. Scoundrels.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> Gadzuux, do you blame the Govenor of Louisianna and the Mayor of N. O.? << They bear some responsibility, but not nearly as much as the feds. There's a limit to the resources available to a mayor and a governor, especially when the federal government has eviscerated the LA nat'l guard. Katrina is bigger than just new orleans and louisiana. It was multi-state, covering hundreds of square miles, and the textbook example of a "Federal Emergency", which is what FEMA (the "Federal Emergency Management Agency") is charged with responding to. They didn't. And a closer examination of the facts that are available- by a GOP committee - shows it. Your guy bush appointed brown and chertoff. Why? What qualifications do either one of them have for such a critical position? Fundraising for bush - that's what.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder Snippets from: <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9179790/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/91 79790/</a> "MR. RUSSERT: People were stunned by a comment the president of the United States made on Wednesday, Mr. Secretary. He said, "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees." How could the president be so wrong, be so misinformed?" "MR. RUSSERT: I want to stay on this because this is very important. You said you were surprised by the levee being broken. In 2002, The Times-Picayune did story after story--and this is eerie; this is what they wrote and how they predicted what was going to happen. It said, and I'll read it very carefully: "...A major hurricane could decimate the region, but flooding from even a moderate storm could kill thousands. It's just a matter of time. ... The scene's been played out for years in computer models or emergency operations simulations... New Orleans has hurricane levees that create a bowl with the bottom dipping lower than the bottom of Lake Pontchartrain. ...the levees would trap any water that gets inside-- by breach, overtopping or torrential downpour--catastrophic storm. ... The estimated 200,000 or more people left behind in an evacuation will be struggling to survive. Some will be housed at the Superdome, the designated shelter for people too sick or inform to leave the city. ...But many will simply be on their own, in homes or looking for high ground. Thousands will drown while trapped in homes or cars by rising water. Other will be washed away or crushed by debris. Survivors will end up trapped on roofs, in buildings or on high ground surrounded by water, with no means of escape and little food or fresh water, perhaps for several days." That was four years ago. And last summer FEMA, who reports to you, and the LSU Hurricane Center, and local and state officials did a simulated Hurricane Pam in which the levees broke. The levees broke, Mr. Secretary, and people--thousands... SEC'Y CHERTOFF: Actually, Tim, that... MR. RUSSERT: Thousands drowned. SEC'Y CHERTOFF: Tim, I had... MR. RUSSERT: There's a CD which is in your department and the White House has it and the president, and you are saying, "We were surprised that the levees may not hold." How could this be?"
Originally Posted By gadzuux <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/10/katrina.levees/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITI CS/02/10/katrina.levees/index.html</a> WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Senate Democrats investigating FEMA's response to Hurricane Katrina say they have documented nearly 30 instances in which federal and local government officials gave early reports on Aug. 29 that levees had broken and that New Orleans was flooding, including one report at 8:30 a.m. the day of the storm. That information is likely to raise fresh questions about why President Bush and Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff were evidently unaware of the flooding until the day after the storm. "The first communication came at 8:30 a.m. (Monday). So, it is inexplicable to me how those responsible for the federal response could have woken up Tuesday morning unaware of this obviously catastrophic situation," said Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Connecticut, said. According to the records compiled by the Senate investigators, New Orleans Homeland Security Director Col. Terry Ebbert said in an 8:30 a.m. conference call that the levees had broken. "We're faced with major flooding both in the east, East New Orleans, and then out on the lakefront," Ebbert is reported to have said. FEMA and National Weather Service personnel participated in the call, the analysis says. At 9:36 a.m., a FEMA employee stationed at the National Hurricane Center e-mailed FEMA official Michael Lowder that a report had been received that a levee in Arabi, next to the Industrial Canal, had failed. And at 10 a.m., a DHS official e-mailed DHS headquarters in Washington: "It is getting bad. Major flooding in some parts of the city. People are calling in for rescue saying they are trapped in attics, etc. That means water is 10 feet high there already." A White House Homeland Security Council report at 11:13 a.m. takes note of the dire reports. It reads in part: "Flooding is significant throughout the region and a levee in New Orleans has reportedly been breached sending 6-8 feet of water throughout the 9th Ward area of the city." But, the record shows that despite the numerous reports, senior administration officials had poor awareness of the situation, even days after the storm passed. They point to a statement by Bush at a news conference in Mississippi on Sept. 2, the Friday after the storm. "The levees broke on Tuesday in New Orleans," Bush said. They also point to a statement by Chertoff that Sunday on NBCs "Meet the Press": "It was on Tuesday that the levee -- may have been overnight Monday to Tuesday -- that the levee started to break. And it was midday Tuesday that I became aware of the fact that there was no possibility of plugging the gap and that essentially the lake was going to start to drain into the city. I think that second catastrophe really caught everybody by surprise," he said. << "Hotly engaged", huh? And "fully involved".
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Here is South Florida as another hurricane season approaches we are being reminded to be prepared to be on our own for three days after a major storm hits. And, I will be prepared. Personal responsibility. Two words that have become obscure in the English language.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<<They bear some responsibility, but not nearly as much as the feds. There's a limit to the resources available to a mayor and a governor.>>> Yea like 2,000 buses sitting around doing nothing while people are partying in the French Quarter and New Orleans floods. Talk about Nero fiddling while Rome burns.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper If the residents of Louisana and New Orleans don't replace their respective "leaders" then they get exactly what they deserve.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Gee, I'm glad that I don't have to rise to the defense of this administration. Just look at the twists and turns that are required. >> Talk about Nero fiddling while Rome burns. << The governor and mayor actually were "hotly engaged" in the response to the hurricane. The federal government was saying "what hurricane"? Almost a week afterward they were still displaying near total ignorance of the event. But go ahead and point to any other scapegoat than the ones who are actually charged with the responsibility for responding. GOPers love to point out that the democrats are out of power, but when it comes to culpability, and accepting responsibility - it's always the dems fault. Having your cake and eating it too.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<The governor and mayor actually were "hotly engaged" in the response to the hurricane.>> By hotly engaged you must mean there wasn't a single camera in sight or microphone that didn't have either of them utilizing it. Sad thing about those buses. <<The federal government was saying "what hurricane"? Almost a week afterward they were still displaying near total ignorance of the event.>> Was this the same Federal Government that advised the Governor and Mayor to prepare for the hurricane. Or perhaps the same Governor who couldn't give the Federal Government an answer about that resources the state of Lousianna needed. Maybe your complaining because FEMA had people on the ground in ALL of those states. Lets not forget that Katrina hit more than just one city. But of course that doesn't matter to Democrats. They are only concerned about the poor poor people of New Orleans who were told to get out and didn't even abide by direct orders of the Mayor or Governor. <<GOPers love to point out that the democrats are out of power, but when it comes to culpability, and accepting responsibility - it's always the dems fault.>> No I love to point out how stupid the people who stayed behind in New Orleans were. And how stupid the Mayor and Governor are.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> Was this the same Federal Government that advised the Governor and Mayor to prepare for the hurricane. << No - this was the same federal government who only had ONE representative in new orleans. This is the same federal government that was insisting on friday that the levees broke on tuesday - they broke monday morning. You may love pointing to the stupid dems, but the GOP controlled congress is pointing to the GOP controlled federal government. And try and remind yourself that hundreds of people died. How stupid of them, huh.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Ya know, I think that when a bipartisan report points out that there were significant failures on the part of the Administration on the hurricane response it's a pretty big deal. The report wasn't looking at the state and local response, just the federal response. And they found that response to be significantly lacking. That doesn't mean that state and local response wasn't bad or lacking. That's just outside the scope of this particular report. Just because your kid gets a D in math doesn't mean that another kid didn't also get a D. But that's on a different report card. Waving your hands and trying to get people to look at something else doesn't change the fact that the Administration's response to the disaster was fatally inept.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper They won't get a pass, or they shouldn't, come election time. And, is the National Hurricane Center an extension of the Federal Government? Yes it is. And they were telling people 5 days in advance of the storm to get out of New Orleans. Who is to blame when people don't listen? Again, all we hear in South Florida time and again is we must prepare to be ON OUR OWN FOR 3 DAYS AFTER A MAJOR STORM. If you are not prepared you only have yourself to blame. If you don't get out you only have yourself to blame. After Wilma (a Cat. 2 that left us without power for 5 days) I never once went to a water/food line. Now, are there some who are in dire need of more immediate help? Yes. But, it shouldn't be the vast majority of the populace. The federal government's slow response was magnified because of the local governments lack of response. Here in Broward County, when water didn't get here immediately after the storm the County took it upon themselves to start the aid efforts...as they should have.
Originally Posted By cmpaley All I have to say is that if this is how the Bush Regime treats a blue city in the midst of a red state, I can only imagine the malicious neglect San Francisco or Los Angeles would get after a major earthquake. Probably NO help at all.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I'm no fan of the Bush administration. But the majority of those who were killed or stranded by the flooding had chosen to stay behind. Could the government have done a better job? Sure they could. But at some point residents facing a hurricane need to stop with the "ride out the storm" b.s. As far as I'm concerned, most of them had no one but themselves to blame. By the way... regarding all of the talk about New Orleans neighborhoods being ignored because of the black population... White residents of New Orleans died in greater numbers than their percentage of the population; any talk about blacks being ignored is poppycock.
