Originally Posted By fkurucz "Trend-starting Texas drops algebra II mandate" <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://news.msn.com/us/trend-starting-texas-drops-algebra-ii-mandate">http://news.msn.com/us/trend-s...-mandate</a> So ... in an age of increasing global competition ... Texas dumbs down its basic curriculum.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Fact: The only way the GOP has any chance of remaining politically viable is to keep constituents too stupid to logically deduce when they're being emotionally manipulated by lying sacks of shyte running for office. Educated people who are rich mostly vote Republican. Educated people who are not mostly don't.
Originally Posted By Mr X I really don't see what the problem is. Algebra is just a theory, so what's everyone getting so worked up about?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Doesn't make much difference. No one in Texas ever passed Algebra I anyway...
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Texas has mistrusted math since they heard that there was a commutative property.
Originally Posted By CuriousConstance Guys, it's Texas. No one needs to have anything make any kind of sense, in Texas.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf Actually, I think Texas is doing the right thing. Let me explain: We have a one-size-fits-all education system in this country that generally assumes everyone is going to go to college, get a business degree, and work in a cubicle for the rest of their lives. Mandatory classes such as Algebra II fit this model perfectly. Instead, having an education system that teaches math, science and critical thinking skills to those who truly need them while focusing on teaching SKILLS to those who are better suited to go into different segments of the labor market seems downright smart to me. We have belittled the trades for so long that we don't have nearly enough skilled laborers now and far too many college grads with huge debts (and some Algebra skills). The truth is that many skilled labor jobs such as welders, plumbers, mechanics, etc., pay far more than cubicle jobs. So we are doing a HUGE disservice to those who aren't cut-out for academia by forcing them to take classes they are going to fail at, get degrees they can't afford, and get jobs they likely will hate. We have hundreds of thousands of skilled labor jobs in this country that are open and available and are awaiting those with the necessary skills to fill them. But sadly, far too many people are being taught the wrong things that have no real application for their future and they are paying a hefty price for it. I know many of you like to bash on Texas (usually with good reason I admit) but they are 100% spot on with this one.
Originally Posted By andyll >>But sadly, far too many people are being taught the wrong things that have no real application for their future and they are paying a hefty price for it.>> I find it hard to believe that one class prevents students from getting vocational training. Why not cut out history or social studies or football. <<So we are doing a HUGE disservice to those who aren't cut-out for academia by forcing them to take classes they are going to fail at, get degrees they can't afford, and get jobs they likely will hate.>> This would be a valid argument if that was the case. However: "But the Texas Education Agency reported last summer that an all-time high — nearly 88 percent of students from the Class of 2012 — graduated on time. It was the fifth consecutive year of improvement." >>We have hundreds of thousands of skilled labor jobs in this country that are open and available and are awaiting those with the necessary skills to fill them.<< Entry level jobs... and some of them pay decent in Texas in the energy sector. However it is hard to move up in company without a proper math & science background. It's also very hard to go back to school for a higher degree if you don't already have the basic math & science background.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Teach algebra isn't about teaching a skill that they will never use. It's about exercising a part of the brain and helping to foster a new way of looking at problems that doesn't come naturally to most people. It isn't about setting them up for failure. The math teacher is Mr Miyagi. The students are wondering how waxing the car and painting the fence are going to help them in a fight, but it is the exercise and repetition that gives them the sense memory to succeed. We need to be challenging students to exceed the knowledge and cognitive skills that they will need for the rest of their lives. Even a mechanic needs to use algebra.
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf <<Teach algebra isn't about teaching a skill that they will never use. It's about exercising a part of the brain and helping to foster a new way of looking at problems that doesn't come naturally to most people. It isn't about setting them up for failure.>> The same exact argument can be made for going to college in general, which is what has diluted the value of a degree while exponentially increasing its cost and simultaneously leaving our workforce devoid of enough skilled laborers. I think there is a better way....
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Anecdotal, but nonetheless..... Way back in the Stone Age when I was in high school, aptitude tests showed I wasn't cut out for math or science. I wasn't good at them, had no patience for them, didn't like them. In all my schooling, from kindergarten through post graduate work, I never took anything beyond Algebra I. No Algebra II, no Advanced this or that, certainly no Trigonometry or Calculus. I never took anything beyond Basic Biology, Chemistry or Physics. In College, to get the requisite Math and Science credits, I took Basic Math, Geology and Cosmology. I got a "D" in Geology (yay rocks and dirt) and I have no idea how I passed Cosmology at UC Irvine. Meanwhile, I was doing rather well in all the other courses. Most lawyers I know hire a math or science guy if they need one for trial. They're called expert witnesses.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 < I have no idea how I passed Cosmology at UC Irvine.> You went to UCI? Wow - you might have been there at the same time as my big sister. (Along with tens of thousands of others, but still...)
Originally Posted By TomSawyer "The same exact argument can be made for going to college in general" I guess, but strong math education earlier in life will have deeper cognitive effects than going to college as a young adult.
Originally Posted By ecdc I have no aptitude for math, either. Today I use a calculator. But I'm glad I was required to take it. It taught me that not everything comes naturally, that sometimes I really have to slow down and apply myself and focus. It seems to me it's a question of when the cut-off is. EighthDwarf is exactly right about the educational issues; we have lawyers on food stamps but a shortage of vocational jobs. So where do we cut off education, and what do we decide has to go? You can make a strong case for just about every subject. For example, these plumbers and electricians are also going to be citizens, potentially who vote. They should understand civics, history, and a basic understanding of science.
Originally Posted By dagobert I didn't know that in the US pupils can chose what classes they take. I always thought that Math or English and other important courses are mandatory and only less important classes can be chosen. Over here we can't chose our courses. High School lasts from 10 to 18 years and at the end we have to take a huge final exam in the most important subjects. Only with the passing of these exams, we are allowed to attend college. So that means we have 8 years of Math, German, English, History, Biology, Geography; six years of Physics; four years of French or Latin, Geometry; three years of Computer Science Chemistry, Art, Music, Psychology and Philosophy. And we don't change classes. We stay the same group of students for 8 years and the teachers are coming to the classrooms instead of pupils going to the teacher, since we all have to take all subjects. So it's quite different.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I didn't know that in the US pupils can chose what classes they take. I always thought that Math or English and other important courses are mandatory and only less important classes can be chosen.> School districts are wildly different from each other here. Each state has its own requirements (sometimes quite different from each other) and in some states, though all schools have to meet the state standards, the individual districts can have different standards of their own. So while all US high schools will have some mandatory classes, in one district it will be 3 years (out of 4) for math, 4 out of 4 for English, 2 out of 4 for a foreign language, 2 of history... and in another it will be 2 years of math, 3 of English, 3 of history... you get the idea. Some schools require physical education all 4 years; some have cut back to no requirement there at all. And while music and art are usually "electives," (i.e. classes you can take in addition to the required classes), some schools facing budget shortfalls have cut those subjects altogether, so that they no longer even exist at those schools.
