Originally Posted By jonvn But, hey, yeah, I'm just named Nadelberg, so what I say doesn't matter: <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/14/anti-semitism/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/ 14/anti-semitism/index.html</a>
Originally Posted By johnno52 I know you want me to bite on this one Jon, but anyone not directly involved in the conflict between the Israelis and Arabs in the Middle East like these thugs are not only dangerous to the society that they live in but the whole world as we have seen with the Nazis. They started with blaming and hating the Jews but as with what happened, they hated everyone and wanted control of the whole world. Are the street gangs of the Americas any less dangerous?
Originally Posted By johnno52 Right but they cause the same amount of fear and hatred amongst people not in their circle of control. I have no sympathy at all for these psychos. Actually I would be in agreement if they send them to Israel and let them take on the Israel army and show us how brave they would be.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Right but they cause the same amount of fear and hatred amongst people not in their circle of control." Not really, no.
Originally Posted By jonvn I suggest you read the article, because some of the things you have said previously are listed as reasons this problem is growing.
Originally Posted By jonvn Here, I'll quote a bit for you: New forms of anti-Semitism are reflected in rhetoric that compares Israel to the Nazis and attributes "Israel's perceived faults to its Jewish character." This kind of anti-Semitism, the report says, "is common throughout the Middle East and in Muslim communities in Europe, but it is not confined to these populations." The report says various U.N. bodies are regularly asked to launch "investigations of what often are sensationalized reports of alleged atrocities and other violations of human rights by Israel." "The collective effect of unremitting criticism of Israel, coupled with a failure to pay attention to regimes that are demonstrably guilty of grave violations, has the effect of reinforcing the notion that the Jewish state is one of the sources, if not the greatest source, of abuse of the rights of others, and thus intentionally or not encourages anti-Semitism." The report gives examples of leaders and governments that "fan the flames of anti-Semitic hatred within their own societies and even beyond their borders." It cites Syria, Belarus, Venezuela, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia. "Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has actively promoted Holocaust denial, Iran's Jewish population faces official discrimination, and the official media outlets regularly produce anti-Semitic propaganda," the report adds.
Originally Posted By johnno52 >rhetoric that compares Israel to the Nazis< Would building the concrete wall have anything to do with this? >This kind of anti-Semitism, the report says, "is common throughout the Middle East and in Muslim communities in Europe, but it is not confined to these populations."< People love the underdogs don't they! >The report says various U.N. bodies are regularly asked to launch "investigations of what often are sensationalized reports of alleged atrocities and other violations of human rights by Israel."< I wish they would investigate. >"The collective effect of unremitting criticism of Israel, coupled with a failure to pay attention to regimes that are demonstrably guilty of grave violations, has the effect of reinforcing the notion that the Jewish state is one of the sources, if not the greatest source, of abuse of the rights of others, and thus intentionally or not encourages anti-Semitism."< Are they all wrong? Can't we question certain actions? Many countries get information from ministry employees stationed in the troubled areas not CNN or NBC etc. >The report gives examples of leaders and governments that "fan the flames of anti-Semitic hatred within their own societies and even beyond their borders." It cites Syria, Belarus, Venezuela, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia.< Like GWB did about Iraq and now doing it towards Iran? >"Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has actively promoted Holocaust denial, Iran's Jewish population faces official discrimination, and the official media outlets regularly produce anti-Semitic propaganda," the report adds.< He would be on the same podium with Hitler if he was still alive, what does that tell you? another psycho. What did you say about people who hate Gays? they are probably ones themselves, like Hitlers father was a Jew?
Originally Posted By jonvn "Would building the concrete wall have anything to do with this?" No. "People love the underdogs don't they!" Glad to see you doing your best to continue with the exact things this report has to say. "Are they all wrong?" Yes, they are anti-semitic. That's the point. "like Hitlers father was a Jew?" His father wasn't a Jew. That is another anti-semitic comment.
Originally Posted By jonvn I don't mean to be rude to you or nasty, but you need to understand that the things you feel and ideas you have on these subjects are based on flagrant anti-semitism as fostered by governments in the mideast and elsewhere. This sort of belief is actually taught in schools to children. If you really want to learn about these things, then i'll discuss them with you if you want.
Originally Posted By woody >>But, hey, yeah, I'm just named Nadelberg, so what I say doesn't matter:<< Since I'm a fundamentalist, born-again believing Christian, I guess my support for "The Jews" don't matter and unappreciated. And maybe considered suspect.
Originally Posted By woody >>Once again, I have no idea what you are talking about.<< Would you like me to spell it out? Your last name sounds Jewish, right? Then you say "what I say doesn't matter". I'm calling myself a fundamentalist Christian, who's support of Jews are often considered suspect. This blog posts kinds of reflect this opinion. <a href="http://www.muzzlewatch.com/?p=185" target="_blank">http://www.muzzlewatch.com/?p= 185</a> "With Friends Like these: Christian Zionists stifle US Jews and inhibit peace efforts." The recent death of Jerry Falwell can serve as an opportunity to reflect on the growing Christian Zionist (CZ) movement and how such a movement is related to other establishment pro-Israel groups such as The David Project, ADL and AIPAC. To be clear, there is a Faustian bargain being forged, for short term political and financial gain, Israel and the American Jewish establishment are willing to engage with people such as John Hagee of the Christians United for Israel (CUFI) “who is contemptuous of Muslims, dismissive of gays, possesses a triumphalist theology and opposes a two-state solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict.†------------ So "a Faustian bargain"? Wow!
Originally Posted By jonvn "Would you like me to spell it out?" Yes. "This blog posts kinds of reflect this opinion." Ah, that stuff. See, unless you actually reference what you are talking about, I will have no idea. The thing is with that is that this "Christian Zionist" stuff is not about Jews having a homeland per se, but about Jews needing a homeland so Jesus can return and then convert all the jews to christians. So, that's not exactly heartwarming, as most Jews are pretty set on Jesus not really being the Messiah.
Originally Posted By johnno52 Jon my reference to Hitler's father was a question as I wasn't sure. In my reading once I thought this was what was written. Does it make any difference to my opinion of him? NO! My understanding of the Middle East and its conflicts have not come from reading one sided Arabic propaganda. Don't forget I live in a country that has an independent news media separate from the US, and reports on issues that may not be available to most Americans. I have enjoyed these discussions with you and have read many of your posts and I do respect your opinions. I however don't like your inferences of anti-semitism. According to you, nobody can harbor any negative views towards the Israeli government or military actions without being an anti-semitic. Do I hate the religion? NO!, do I hate JEWS? NO!
Originally Posted By woody Many Christians do feel close to the Jewish state as a birth place of Jesus. They want the Jews to retain control of this land. Certainly, wanting them to convert is a concern that the Jews ignore their own messiah. However, there is a hope that the Jews can come around, but it not a demand. Nonetheless, the support from Christians is real.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Jon my reference to Hitler's father was a question as I wasn't sure." Oh, a question. In that case, no. He was not, and it is something people bring up as an anti-semitic thing. There is no truth to it at all. "According to you, nobody can harbor any negative views towards the Israeli government or military actions without being an anti-semitic" No, that is not my view. You can harbor negative views towards their government and their policies. But to state they should not be there at all, or that they are somehow illegitimately there does bespeak of anti-semitism. There are many Jews who do NOT agree with Israeli policy. There are multiple parties within Israel itself who have different viewpoints. Israel, being a democracy, promotes disagreements with its policy. But that does not mean it should not exist or that it should be destroyed, or that it should not defend itself.
Originally Posted By johnno52 >But to state they should not be there at all, or that they are somehow illegitimately there does bespeak of anti-semitism. < This did not come from my posts or is it my view. >There are many Jews who do NOT agree with Israeli policy. There are multiple parties within Israel itself who have different viewpoints. Israel, being a democracy, promotes disagreements with its policy. But that does not mean it should not exist or that it should be destroyed, or that it should not defend itself.< Correct! and as answered above.
Originally Posted By jonvn "This did not come from my posts or is it my view." Then tell me exactly what your view is, because I then do not know.
Originally Posted By johnno52 Its useless as you cannot accept anyone having a view against Israel and the country's government and military aggression. This post was about the Skinheads which I agreed with you that they are psychos. Now you want to continue our discussion from another thread about anti-semitism. Sorry but its done and I will not continue your baiting! Talk to you on the other threads.
