Originally Posted By Mr X <a href="http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/14060/video" target="_blank">http://www.pamshouseblend.com/...60/video</a>-übermormon-sutherland-institute-in-open-revolt-against-lds-leadership "I'm here to argue that the Equality Utah version of reality is an illusion. The CGI bills constantly refer to sexual orientation. Sexual orientation is an illusion. It only exists in the minds of activists, and their academics, who need to explain away why people do what they do even when they don't want to do it." Wow. "explain away why people do what they do EVEN WHEN THEY DON'T WANT TO DO IT." Wow. I'd really like to get some reaction from the LP gay folk here...why on Earth are you guys doing something you don't even want to do?
Originally Posted By Mr X <a href="http://tinyurl.com/yju2uz8" target="_blank">http://tinyurl.com/yju2uz8</a> Sorry for the bad link, hopefully this one will work (it's DEFINITELY worth your trouble to click, I only quoted a tiny part of it).
Originally Posted By Mr X Bad link again. UGH. Try this one. <a href="http://www.pamshouseblend.com/diary/14060/video" target="_blank">http://www.pamshouseblend.com/...60/video</a>-übermormon-sutherland-institute-in-open-revolt-against-lds-leadership If that doesn't work, I give up.
Originally Posted By Mr X Apparently it's impossible to link directly, or else I'm doing something horribly wrong. Here's the topic on DemocraticUndergroup which includes the link (maybe THAT'LL work)... <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7008622" target="_blank">http://www.democraticundergrou...x7008622</a>
Originally Posted By Mr X Link is at the bottom of the first post. Sorry for the messy attempts, I can't quite figure out why it didn't work...but anyway, there's the source (two clicks from here, sorry).
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 LMAO, don't know which is funnier, the democratic underground link or the hard time you had even posting a link... ;o) Proof yet again that LDS are way behind the times...
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I'd really like to get some reaction from the LP gay folk here...why on Earth are you guys doing something you don't even want to do? I guess the devil makes me do it! (those of us over 40 may recognize the wit and wisdom of Mr. Flip Wilson.)
Originally Posted By mele "Sexual orientation is an illusion. Your idea of rights is an illusion. Your equality is illusory." "You think your equality is about who you are, when it's really only about what you do." Hm, I missed this in the Constitution/Bill of Rights. I am glad he pointed it out. It's a good thing his actions make him one of the lucky ones who does deserve quality. ---- Also, I'd have to say my willfullness is the only reason I am bisexual. Pure willfullness to stray for God's Divine Plan.
Originally Posted By gadzuux The entire LDS religion and faith is built on the conceit that they alone have the answers - the "truth". It's not just 'belief' for them, it's unquestioned and unswerving "TRUTH". Arguing with them is a pointless exercise because their truth is divine - because they say so. It doesn't matter how many times you point their nose at obvious and glaring facts that dispute their truth for the hokum that it is, they stubbornly cling to church teaching. In this particular case, the truth is shifting ever so slightly - as it does all the time. These folks are convinced 110% that sexuality is a choice, specifically homosexuals. And again, it doesn't matter what the actual facts are - they're digging in their heels and insisting that black is white. They've been denying reality in favor of church teachings on any number of topics for their entire lifetimes and they've grown accustomed to their own cognitive dissonance. Mormonism seems a bit like stockholm syndrome, where the captive becomes enamoured of the group that's holding and oppressing them. When this happens, people will do or say literally anything. Patty Hearst ended up joining the SLA and robbing banks and slinging automatic weapons. Not much different from being a mormon really. These folks are heavily invested in the idea that sexuality is a voluntary choice. They're not willing to backpedal one little bit. And they see their bedrock pillar of truth - the mormon church - making tentative steps towards acknowledging reality. Remember it took the catholic church hundreds of years to finally concede that earth was not the center of the universe. And during those hundreds of years, they tortured people who said any different. Not much different from being a mormon really. What they're not seeing, and what the church elders apparently are - is that they live and thrive in the united states of america. As such, they need to be in compliance with certain constitutional guarantees. They've been poking the hornet's nest with sticks recently, and it's likely that their own internal "legal department" has decided that they're vulnerable in some key areas. The only downside for them is that they get some grumbling from their own bitter fringe. And of course they expose their own hypcrisy yet again, but they're used to that by now.
Originally Posted By Mr F God is an Illusion, because his existence hasn't been proven to exist. Sexual orientation exists, because, unless you are asexual, everyone in the world is sexual attracted to other humans.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox According to these sages... folks at Kinsey Zero are doing exactly what they want to do, folks at Kinsey Three sometimes do what they want to do (yeah I tend to dither, tis true), and folks at Kinsey Six are doing what they DON'T want to do? That would make the Kinsey Sixes pure masochists. It's a well known fact that the opposite of masochism is sadism. So the leaders of the Sullivan Institute, who are obviously all self-proclaimed Kinsey Zeros -- are openly admitting that they're sadists? About freakin' time. ;^)
Originally Posted By utahjosh <These folks are heavily invested in the idea that sexuality is a voluntary choice. They're not willing to backpedal one little bit> I've said multiple times that i don't believe every gay person chooses to be attracted to people of their same sex. Quit lying, gadzuux.
Originally Posted By gadzuux "These folks" would refer to the complainers within the LDS church referenced in Post #1. Additionally, if you look a little further, you may find the humorous tone to my post. Or maybe not.
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster Utahjosh: "I've said multiple times that i don't believe every gay person chooses to be attracted to people of their same sex." So just most of them? Some of them? Just a few? Granted, a belief doesn't have to based on any kind of factual evidence but I'm wondering where this belief of yours comes from that some people can choose who they are attracted to.
Originally Posted By utahjosh "but I'm wondering where this belief of yours comes from that some people can choose who they are attracted to." It's based on two close friends of mine. I'll say that I have no idea where sexual orientation comes from. I believe most are probably born with those desires. I believe some choose. One passed away recently. He lived a homosexual lifestyle for years, and told me he chose it. He liked the challenge, the thrill, the rebellion of the norm. He would have denied that he chose it while he lived that way. The other was a roommate of mine down at Disney World. We both worked there. He didn't have much luck with the ladies and didn't have a ton of friends. He found friends and guys interested in him in the entertainment jobs there, where homosexuality is accepted, praised, and popular. He decided to be gay. He wasn't coming out, he was deciding to change.
Originally Posted By Sara Tonin "It's based on two close friends of mine" Glad to hear you compiled your facts from such extensive research.
Originally Posted By ecdc Hold up. We're told that the position of the faithful has never changed on this. Then we're told it has. Which is it?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 He found friends and guys interested in him in the entertainment jobs there, where homosexuality is accepted, praised, and popular. He decided to be gay. He wasn't coming out, he was deciding to change. It simply doesn't work that way, and that's not just me saying that, it's every credible expert on sexuality. At most , your friends were bi to begin with, and found more success (or more desire) on the homo side. But no way they were straight and just flipped a switch and changed. Even if they think so--don't take their self-delusion (and trust me, a lot of gay/bi people can have that, especially when young) as anything but that.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <your friends were bi to begin with, and found more success (or more desire) on the homo side. > Glad you know my friends much more than I do.
