Originally Posted By TomSawyer Harry Reid has said that he has it from a credible source that Mitt Romney hasn't filed or paid taxes in ten years. Romney is responding to the allegations by asking Reid who his source was. Romney could easily discredit Reid by releasing his tax returns, but Romney has said that there are things in the returns that could be used by the Democrats to damage his campaign and reputation. Romney has drawn a line and insists he won't release his tax returns. Will Romney flip-flop on this and release them anyway? Will he refuse to release them, giving birth to a new birther-like movement on the left? Has Reid set up Romney just like the GOP did with Obama, so that even when Romney releases his returns no one is going to believe that they are real? Now Romney and his spokespeople are again finding themselves responding to the narrative that the Democrats and Obama are creating, rather than writing their own.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I think there are things in his taxes that will hurt Romney -- offshore accounts, low tax rates, etc. It's going to seem incredibly unfair to the average person that someone with so much contributes so little, all the while talking about "saving America." I wonder how his wife's dressage horse is doing in the Olympics...
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Interesting comparison. But it's worth noting that a). No other presidential candidate in my memory was EVER asked to release his birth certificate before Obama; b). Obama (or rather, the state of Hawaii) DID release the certificate, way back in the 2008 process, when the Clintons looked into it. They were satisfied, and that should have been the end of it, but the right insisted it wasn't the "long-form." Of course, HI released what HI always releases, which is good enough for a passport or any other proof you need. In contrast, expecting Romney to release his tax returns is not something different, but rather expecting him to continue the tradition that's now almost half a century old, ironically started by his father. And unlike Obama/HI, who did release what is acceptable to any court in the land as proof of birth, Romney will NOT release anything more than one year, plus an estimate of another. The polls are showing this is hurting Romney, which they have to know. So they're making the calculated decision that whatever is in those returns would be MORE damaging, should it become known, than the substantial damage he's sustaining by not releasing them. Which says to me it has to be something other than paying a ridiculously low rate of 13.9%. We already know that for 2010. Simply paying a similar rate for more years would not damage him further. It must be something else. He also lied to ABC news, telling them he'd check if he ever paid less than 13.9% and let them know. 24 hours later, ABC asked if he would, and the campaign said he wouldn't be telling.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< The polls are showing this is hurting Romney, which they have to know. So they're making the calculated decision that whatever is in those returns would be MORE damaging, should it become known, than the substantial damage he's sustaining by not releasing them. >>> Of course. I'm not sure of how much a direct quote the following from the OP is: <<< Romney has said that there are things in the returns that could be used by the Democrats to damage his campaign and reputation. >>> , but it's an interesting spin on it. At the very same time that it's stated that more returns will not be released, there's this reference to the "Democrats" and what *they* would make of the information to damage Romney's image. Of course, there's nothing that Obama or the Democrats would or could do that would influence those on the far left to vote for Obama - they're already going to do so. The only issue is what moderates might think of the information. And, if the information is damaging enough to need to be kept from the public, it's the information itself, not what the Democrats would do with it, that's the problem.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I wonder how his wife's dressage horse is doing in the Olympics...<< In 13th place, as of yesterday. Apparently there are a lot of dressage horses in the Olympics. <a href="http://www.mercurynews.com/olympics/ci_21217711/olympics-ann-romneys-horse-delivers-solid-performance-dressage" target="_blank">http://www.mercurynews.com/oly...dressage</a> >>Will Romney flip-flop on this and release them anyway?<< Yep. On NEW YEAR'S EVE. ;-)
Originally Posted By ecdc I will dissent on this one. I think what Harry Reid did was kinda icky. It's gossip, pure and simple. It's the sort of thing Sarah Palin would do. I love that democrats are on the offensive, I love how Obama is pushing this. I love the America the Beautiful ad. But let's stick to known-facts, not "Hey, this guy told me Mitt hasn't paid taxes."
Originally Posted By mawnck >>I think what Harry Reid did was kinda icky. It's gossip, pure and simple. It's the sort of thing Sarah Palin would do.<< And I think the days when you could take the high road and still win elections are over, dead, buried, decomposed, and definitely not coming back. Liberals can either be a part of the new normal, or sit on the sidelines and watch it. You don't get another option. Romney left an opening, and Harry is the one who got handed the ball. Go, Harry.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I agree with ecdc. There's enough very legitimate substance to go on with Romney's taxes. We should focus on that.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I would not be surprised if Romney's taxes are released anyway, regardless of whether or not he wants to. Keep an eye on Anonymous or Wikileaks. And I wouldn't be surprised if they are leaked during or just after the GOP convention, focusing the news cycle on the taxes rather than the GOP's floor show.
Originally Posted By ecdc Possibly. I think Dabob2 hit the nail right square on the head. It's hard to imagine Romney's willingness to weather this kind of criticism and scrutiny if he hasn't calculated that releasing the tax returns would be even worse. And like I said, I love the offense. I'm by no means convinced Obama's got this sewn up - not with this country's attention span. But the past month or so has been encouraging, and at times, downright fun. It's positively delightful to watch the GOP (you know, the party that embraced swiftboating and Lee Atwater) cry unfair. And even on this, I gotta admit, the way Harry Reid handled it is what brought it so much media attention. If he'd just mentioned he thought Romney had paid no taxes, no one would've said anything. But by taking this gossipy route, it's once again put the spotlight on Mitt Romney, who oh so ironically says, "Put up or shut up." But still...there's something just unseemly about the whole affair.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< But still...there's something just unseemly about the whole affair. >>> I think I have it all figured out. It's not about Romney's politics - Harry Reid just dislikes Mormons.
Originally Posted By ecdc This story is now the lead on CNN. Ok, seriously, Romney supporters, doesn't it make you question even a little bit why he won't release them? I'm not saying it means you won't vote for him, but is there any Romney supporter who thinks this is a teensy bit odd? And what's the response to what Democrats (and many Republicans) keep saying, "What's in the returns must be worse than the cost of not releasing them."
Originally Posted By TomSawyer He's making the issue worse by not releasing them and facing the music. Now we get to guess what is so bad that he has to hide it from the public, or even to guess whether or not he actually filed income taxes. Did he cook the books a little to hide his wealth? Did he commit tax fraud? Did he donate to Planned Parenthood? Did he claim residence in a state other than the one in which he ran for governor to avoid Massachusett's taxes? Whatever it is, it is so bad that the Romney campaign is willing to let this define their candidate.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Another thing: Romney flat out lied 10 years ago when running for MA governor. To be eligible to run for governor in MA, you must have been a MA resident for the prior 7 years. Romney had been a MA resident, of course, but famously went to Utah from 1999-2002 for the Olympics. That in itself would not disqualify him, as long as he remained a MA resident. And the way you do that when you don't actually live there is by filing your taxes there. In 2002, Romney's Democratic opponent brought up the issue. Romney was asked if he had continued to file as a MA resident. He said yes. His opponent then challenged him to release his tax returns (as she had done). He refused to release any (sound familiar?) but said, essentially, "trust me. I'm not going to show you the returns, but I filed as a MA resident. Trust me." The Boston Globe (I believe) did a little digging, and it turns out - ta da! - Romney filed as a Utah resident. Mitt flat out lied to the press and the populace. He then went back and re-filed as a MA resident retroactively so he could qualify to run for governor, but that doesn't change the fact that he lied. Lied bald-faced. Flash forward to 2012, and what's he telling us? He's saying he won't show us any years other than 2010 and an estimate for 2011, but "I've paid everything I've owed. Trust me. And nothing illegal. I didn't even save any money by having accounts in Switzerland and the Caymans and Bermuda. I'm not going to show you the returns and back up those statements. But trust me." The thing about a guy who says "trust me" and then lies to you... when he says "trust me" again, particularly on the very same subject? I tend not to trust him.
Originally Posted By dshyates Romney is a Mormon and that means he is beyond reproach. The fact that you guys are questioning Romney's honesty means that you guys hate Christians!
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<In 2002, Romney's Democratic opponent brought up the issue. Romney was asked if he had continued to file as a MA resident. He said yes. His opponent then challenged him to release his tax returns (as she had done). He refused to release any (sound familiar?) but said, essentially, "trust me. I'm not going to show you the returns, but I filed as a MA resident. Trust me.">> Don't forget the real possibility that Romney committed voter fraud in January 2010 when he claimed to be living in his son's unfinished basement during the special election so he could claim MA citizenship and vote for Scott Brown. Really? A man worth over $250 million dollars needs to live in his son's basement? Uh huh.
Originally Posted By dshyates Romney is worth WAY more than $250. That's Powerball money. Not CEO money.
