Originally Posted By ecdc By now we've all read the tragedy at Northern Illinois. By an amazing coincidence, an aquaintance of mine who lives in Michigan has a son who was in the class that was attacked. She didn't provide a lot of details, but it was so eerie getting a first-person account. Apparently her son was in the back of the class taking notes. He heard a door open up by the professor's podium, he thought, but didn't look up. Then he heard a loud boom and saw someone dressed entirely in black pointing a shotgun at the students. Everyone bolted and he got out safe. I don't know how anyone sleeps at night after something like that. It made me wonder, are school shootings a recent phenomena or is it just getting more (understandably) attention in the media. If it a recent phenomenon, why?
Originally Posted By gottaluvdavillains There were four this week... I think a total (including the shooters) is at 10 or 11... It's just so sad!!
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I believe it is a new thing...â€new,†meaning new within the last say 15 years or so. I attribute most of it to the general break down of the nuclear (Nuke-u-ler) family unit in our society. It starts (or ends) in the home where wedding vows are now almost meaningless, and people get married with the pretense that "Let's try it, if it doesn't work we can always get divorced." The result is a nation with huge numbers of couples that are in marriages that are doomed to failure from the start, and add to that kids who always come out the losers in ANY divorce situation. Perhaps too it can be partially credited to the masses of parents today that would rather be their kids "friend" than their children's "parent." There are now so many sappy, new-thinking parents out there who have really fantastic and enlightened views of how to raise children…oh and may the devil rise from hell and take over if a mom or dad spanks a child! Now I say that agreeing that for the MOST part, spanking is "lazy parenting," but sometimes it is extremely effective where other methods simply fail. Right before our new baby was born, (maybe 3 weeks ago) there was a lady (maybe 45'ish) who was near me in Target. I was out alone with my then 4 youngest boys (aged 8,5,3,19 months). My 5 year old, who was walking beside the cart, and who knows better, grabbed a DVD off the rack as we passed by. I stopped the cart, backed up to the proper spot and looked at him and said “no.†He put the DVD back and grinned at me. He was messing with me and I wasn’t angry or anything. It was a totally harmless situation. Anyway, this lady walked over to me and placed her hand on my forearm. She said, “I have found over the years that saying “no†to the little ones isn’t the best thing.†I replied, “Oh?†She said, “yes, what you should do is say something like ‘Oh honey let’s put that back, and get something else over there.’†I was surprised but I'm always polite in front of my kids. I replied, “Well maybe that works for grandmothers, but I have to be a parent. I can’t give these kids back at the end of the day and I feel like they need to know the meaning of the word “noâ€.†I wasn’t being smart mouthed, it really came out in a non-offensive way. She smiled at me and said, “You have beautiful boys,†and she turned and walked off. Anyway, I know that there are kids who are just simply disturbed, some who have chemical imbalances, some who are raised in terrible home-situations, and others that are simply born into a personality of doing wrong at every turn. HOWEVER, I believe that a very large portion (a majority even) of “bad†kids today are the product of poor parenting, plain and simple. Think about it. I grew up in a time where my dad’s pistols, rifles, and shot guns were easily available to me at any time. But like my friends and cousins, I respected them, respected those who owned them, and wouldn’t dare touch them. We played cowboys and Indians, we played bank robbers and police, we played WAR and acted like we were shooting each other all the time. I and my cousins even carried a little “Old Timer†pocket knife and we never cut each other. It was just a differnt time back then. I love the song by Bucky Covington. It’s called A Different World. We were born to mothers who smoked and drank Our cribs were covered in lead-based paint No childproof lids No seatbelts in cars Rode bikes with no helmets and still here we are Still here we are We got daddy's belt when we misbehaved Had three TV channels you got up to change No video games and no satellite All we had were friends and they were outside Playing outside It was a different life When we were boys and girls Not just a different time It was a different world School always started the same everyday the pledge of allegiance, then someone would pray not every kid made the team when they tried We got disappointed but that was alright We turned out alright It was a different life When we were boys and girls Not just a different time It was a different world No bottled water We'd drink from a garden hose And every Sunday, All the stores were closed. It was a different life When we were boys and girls Not just a different time It was a different world It was a different life When we were boys and girls Not just a different time It was a different world It was a different world Heres to wishing more parents would take responsibility for themselves and then for their children's upbringning. My god, I've turned into my dad! Help!!!
Originally Posted By DVC_dad ^ ^ ^ Oh and I like the song with one exception... the very first line. ;p
Originally Posted By jonvn "I attribute most of it to the general break down of the nuclear (Nuke-u-ler) family unit in our society" I don't. I attribute it to the fact that we don't lock up insane people anymore for their good and the good of the community. "I believe that a very large portion (a majority even) of “bad†kids today are the product of poor parenting, plain and simple" This is true, though. Because people really are getting dumber and dumber, and are losing any shred of common sense. People today are generally colder, harsher, and unconcerned about others or even themselves.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 "Because people really are getting dumber and dumber, and are losing any shred of common sense." I disagree - I don't think people are any stupider now than they ever were - I just think they have more of a voice than they ever have before. Thanks to the media and the internet, every moron can voice his or her opinion for everyone to see - and the result is that we finally get to see just how stupid most Americans really are. I really don't think that these people are any stupider than most of their forefathers were - they just have more of a voice now.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad jonvn I agree completely. I don't think people r getting dumber in the sense of lower IQ, but there certainly does seem to be a "watering down" of common sense today. We don't save. We don't look out for each other. We so don't go to church, which is fine, but we don't find a replacemt for teaching ourselves ethics and morals. We don't discipline our kids because we don't have any self control over our own lives. We don't care about history and we lack a sense of community and citizenship that the WWII generation displayed. We need help.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 DVC_dad - those are probably the exact same types of things that the WWII generation used to say about their kids in the 60s - and now that generation is looking at us and saying those things to us. And I'll bet that the generation before the WWII generation said the same things about them - think the Roaring 20's lifestyle. So, are we just progressively getting worse and worse, or is it simply a lack of the previous generation's ability to like any kind of change from what they knew growing up??
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF >>We don't save.<< True. >>We don't look out for each other.<< True. We are too busy dividing ourselves over various things. There is a huge lack of unification in this country. Was it always there, though? I don't know, but it's something I've thought about as I've gotten older. >>We so don't go to church, which is fine, but we don't find a replacemt for teaching ourselves ethics and morals.<< I disagree. There is a strong sector of the country at large that thinks it has the corner market on morality and ethics and wants to impose it on everyone else. See previous point. >>We don't discipline our kids because we don't have any self control over our own lives.<< Parents need to get off this sense of entitlement kick that I've seen over the years. Yes, the little darlings are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way...but don't forget that you're the adult. I think "The Three-Martini Playdate" should be required reading for everyone who wants to parent. >>We don't care about history and we lack a sense of community and citizenship that the WWII generation displayed.<< Perhaps. But our elected officials don't set a good example. It's hard to keep from getting cynical and disillusioned when a story breaks seemingly every week about one politician or another involved in some sort of corruption. The message it sends to young people? "To get ahead in life, sometimes morals get in the way." >>We need help.<< We need a round of Sno-Cones. I'll take lime.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad I an certainly old fashioned. I'm not afraid of positive change. Kids shooting up schools is certainly not a positive change. However most of MY rant is certainly due to me being personally resistant to change. I fond myself on the other side of the generation gap now. Very good points plpeters70. Thank you.
Originally Posted By jonvn I don't think people of the wwii generation said the same things about the 60s people. They said they were dirty looking, behaved badly, unpatriotic, communists. And, for the most part, they were dirty looking, bhaved badly, unpatriotic, and were sympathetic to communist causes. People are actually quite a bit stupider today than they used to be. Not only in a book smart sense, but in simple common sense as well. The attitude among younger people today is basically angry and hostile, with a sense of entitlement that is utterly not deserved. All you have to do is look at some of these dolts who have covered themselves in tattoos to see how far we've sunk. At least in the 60s, if you grew your hair long, you could always get a haircut for a couple of bucks.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 "And, for the most part, they were dirty looking, bhaved badly, unpatriotic, and were sympathetic to communist causes." Sounds like somebody didn't fit in very well with the other members of his age group!! ;-) "The attitude among younger people today is basically angry and hostile, with a sense of entitlement that is utterly not deserved." Don't you think you're being a little bit hysterical here -- I'm one of these young people - I'll be 30 this year - and I'm neither angry nor hostile towards others. Though I will say that I probably do have a small sense of entitlement - but I blame my parents for that!! ;-) Anyway, I'm not so sure that people have less Common Sense than they used to - just that what was seen as Common Sense by the previous generation is no longer so "Common". I will say that as someone who is getting older, I do find myself looking at those younger than me and thinking "I would never have behaved like that when I was a kid. Oh, how time's have changed." So, I have to conclude that this is just a part of getting old, and that maybe the world really isn't a worse place than it was back then - just different. Oh, except when it comes to Disney Theme Parks - they were definitely better when I was a child in the 80's!! ;-)
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "People are actually quite a bit stupider today than they used to be. Not only in a book smart sense, but in simple common sense as well. The attitude among younger people today is basically angry and hostile, with a sense of entitlement that is utterly not deserved." This will come as a shock, but I agree this 100%.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Sounds like somebody didn't fit in very well with the other members of his age group!! " There were all kinds of people around back then. Not just hippies. "Don't you think you're being a little bit hysterical here " Not really, no. I've seen generations of kids, from the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s. Starting in the mid 90s, things started really sliding into the dumper. Really bad. When you are younger, it is easy to think an older person does not understand. The truth is they understand far too well. They've already been where younger people are going. If anyone doesn't understand, it's those who don't have the years behind them.
Originally Posted By WilliamK99 taking a page from jon's playbook... This only re-affirms my belief that all students are sick sociopaths who will try and kill their fellow students. I mean I hear about a shotting or an attempted shooting weekly, so all students must be killers...
Originally Posted By plpeters70 "There were all kinds of people around back then. Not just hippies." I know - I was just teasing! "Starting in the mid 90s, things started really sliding into the dumper. Really bad." How so? I mean, I won't argue that there weren't some bad things in the 90s, but were they really any worse than some of the stuff that came before?
Originally Posted By jonvn A lot of them are sociopaths. It is estimated that 1 in 25 people are sociopaths. Last year I had a run in with a person I would say is absolutely a sociopath. Here is a little blurb on them. And given what I've seen of people, 1 in 25 seems absurdly low. <a href="http://www.cix.co.uk/~klockstone/spath.htm" target="_blank">http://www.cix.co.uk/~klocksto ne/spath.htm</a>
Originally Posted By DAR So this shooter is being properly vilified correct? We're not trying to understand him or why he did this? We know he's nothing but a thug who's a coward. And yes I read he forgot to take his medication, I don't care he's a coward he will be a coward. Screw him.
