Originally Posted By DAR Or at least my state government: <a href="http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=705095" target="_blank">http://www.jsonline.com/story/ index.aspx?id=705095</a> Two years in a row now they've messed this up. And these people think they can run our health care system.
Originally Posted By jonvn Yeah? Well, they can't do worse than what we have now. We already have the WORST record of preventable deaths in this country, due to our health care "system." <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22554235/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22 554235/</a>
Originally Posted By DAR <<Well, they can't do worse than what we have now>> Sure they can it's the government.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Even a single-payer system (which none of the major candidates has the stones to propose) is not the gov't "running" the health care system. It is at most them running the billing. In countries such as Canada, England, France, Spain - oh, the rest of the western world - you choose your own doctor, he or she "runs" your health care - you just pay for it differently (and far more efficiently).
Originally Posted By Dabob2 And I should add, there's LESS interference with doctors' decisions in those countries than there is here. The interference here comes from insurance companies and HMO's (I have first-hand experience with this, as do many of us here), who are blessedly cut out of the equation in a single-payer system. But, unfortunately, although there's a single-payer proposal in Congress, too many Congressmen are in the pockets of the health care "industry" (which should be an oxymoron), and none of the presidential candidates will have it either, due to the skittishness of having the fear of "socialized medicine" raised by opponents. This is often characterized as the government running health care (as we've already seen on this thread), but that's not what it is. It's not a flawless system, but it's better than our current one.
Originally Posted By jonvn "Sure they can it's the government. " I would stay off of roads if I were you, they were paid for by the government. Oh, and stay out of any buildings, too, because they were built according to building codes created by the government. Your comments make zero sense. We are ALREADY worst. You can't go below that.
Originally Posted By DAR <<I would stay off of roads if I were you, they were paid for by the government. Oh, and stay out of any buildings, too, because they were built according to building codes created by the government. Your comments make zero sense. >> My comments make perfect sense. First things first they need to fix little things like this. Or waiting at the DMV for hours on end. Then we just heard the excuse that our garbage wasn't picked up not because of the snow(which has just about melted) and so each garbage truck was picked up with a plow, but because they have only one person to get the garbage carts. Give me a break. If they want to take over fine, but I want messups to be fixed. If anyone in the private sector made any of these mistakes they'd get their feet held to the fire. But the majority of the time the government gets a pass. That has to stop.
Originally Posted By DAR <<It is at most them running the billing.>> And did read what happened in the original article I posted? That alone doesn't give me the greatest confidence.
Originally Posted By jonvn "My comments make perfect sense." Certainly they don't, and I pointed out two areas where they obviously make no sense. I don't wait at the DMV for hours on end, and I suspect I've had more to do with them than you have, given my commercial truck driving license which allows for hazmat, tankers, and triples. Passenger busses, too. You need to reflect on what is actual reality. And the reality is what was reflected in that article I pointed to. The reality is also what I said about roads and buildings. Your "government is always bad" idea is simplistic and wrong. We can't do worse than absolute worst. I don't even understand your thinking. We are at the bottom of the barrel. Yet, you don't want to do something that is shown to be effective elsewhere at making things better for people. I guess you just want people to suffer and die, because that is what you are advocating.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy I read the article that was provided by the OP in this thread. The story revolves around how a government authority made a bonehead mistake in printing social security numbers on a mailing label that went out to citizens. In this era of identity theft, this is a big concern, but does this article has absolutely no bearing on the health care debate. If I scour the news pages to find an article on how an insurance company had personal information on its customers lost or stolen, does that mean that the private sector is incapable of providing adequate health care as well?
Originally Posted By DAR <<Your "government is always bad" idea is simplistic and wrong. We can't do worse than absolute worst. >> Government isn't always bad, it's just bad right now. But given what our choices have been what can we do. <<I don't even understand your thinking. We are at the bottom of the barrel. Yet, you don't want to do something that is shown to be effective elsewhere at making things better for people.>> No what I want is for there not to be any major screwups. Has anything the government done at any level recently lead you to believe that there won't be a major screwup on its way. <<I guess you just want people to suffer and die, because that is what you are advocating.>> Yes I want people to suffer and die. Show me where I said that?
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << No what I want is for there not to be any major screwups. Has anything the government done at any level recently lead you to believe that there won't be a major screwup on its way. >> You're right. Let's turn over things to the financial markets, bankers, and other upstanding business follks in the private sector. We all know how well they've managed to completely destroy the real estate market in the U.S. with their great business sense. No blunders to report there, lol.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <<It is at most them running the billing.>> <And did read what happened in the original article I posted? That alone doesn't give me the greatest confidence.> Yes, I read it. It was about a mailing screwup. Something that happens with private companies as well. As SportGoofy said, it has no bearing on the health care debate.
Originally Posted By DAR <<In this era of identity theft, this is a big concern, but does this article has absolutely no bearing on the health care debate>> No but the point was they need to fix problems like this if they are going to take over our health care system. What if that was people's health care records that got sent to the wrong party? How is that in anyway acceptable <<If I scour the news pages to find an article on how an insurance company had personal information on its customers lost or stolen, does that mean that the private sector is incapable of providing adequate health care as well?>> In the eyes of the customer it might. I actually work for a life insurance company. A few years back I sent out information to the wrong person on a case I was working on. Not to get into too much detail but an ex-husband was able to find out where is ex-wife had moved to. Rightfully so I had to apologize, talk to our company's attorney's about a pending lawsuit(that thankfully never came about). It was something that was placed in my permanent file. And I had to retake a class on identity theft. And at the time it prevented me from getting another promotion. I was held accountable for what I did. That was the right thing to do. Government employees need to be held to same standards that many private businesses hold their employees to.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << Government employees need to be held to same standards that many private businesses hold their employees to. >> What makes you think they aren't? Are you familiar with the government's policy/guidelines on protecting personal information? Are you familiar with government programs that are ongoing in this area?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>While 485,000 copies were supposed to go out, the mailing was stopped after a recipient caught the error, according to EDS Corp., the vendor responsible for processing the mailings. State officials said they learned of the mistake Monday night.<< So the actual error, it seems, was made by a company hired as a vendor by the state, not the state itself.
Originally Posted By DAR <<What makes you think they aren't?>> How about two years in a row people's SS#'s being sent out. <<Are you familiar with the government's policy/guidelines on protecting personal information? Are you familiar with government programs that are ongoing in this area?>> I'm vaguely aware of it. I just want them to do a better a job. I'm really not asking for much, just some accountability.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I'm vaguely aware of it. I just want them to do a better a job. >> EDS is also the prime contractor on my computer network at the office -- I want them to do a much better job, too.
Originally Posted By DAR <<So the actual error, it seems, was made by a company hired as a vendor by the state, not the state itself.>> True but it was reported on the radio the information was sent from the State itself to this company. So the information was already on there. This EDS company should have never received the information. I can't believe you guys think this is acceptable.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 No one has said it's acceptable. You shouldn't imply we did. Obviously, this shouldn't have happened. The point we're making is that it's illogical to leap from that to "the government shouldn't run health care." 1). The government wouldn't really run much but the billing; 2). Private companies make the same kinds of mistakes - there's nothing inherently "government" about this one.
