Originally Posted By ecdc As of late, I've been so appalled and disgusted with the President of the United States that even I'm starting to question my own judgment. Can one person really be that horrible? Perhaps my emotions are running away with me. So help convince me: Is George W. Bush not all that bad after all? I look and all I see is one failure after another: Iraq, Katrina, etc. What has Bush gotten right since his re-election? If you step back and ask yourself, "What has George W. Bush done for me and my family in the last two years?" what is your answer? It's my game so here are the rules 1) No "lib" bashing. Telling me that Democrats have no plans or are terrorist-loving, American-hating moonbats with too much dandruff -- aside from being lies -- doesn't tell me what Bush has done for you and your family, or for me and mine. Stick to what Bush has *done* - period. 2) Frankly, saying we're all safer because of Iraq doesn't cut it for me. It's a tired old argument we've all heard and the country is clearly pretty divided on whether there's any truth to it. If that's all you've got, then you've lost me. So Bush supporters, convince me.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I have a wall here. I think I would rather just bang my head into it if it is all the same to you.
Originally Posted By cmpaley Yeah, who wants to try to talk about how great Bush is without bashing "libs and dems." It's always about comparing how terrible "they" are compared to how great HE is. Heck, you can make satan look good by tearing down his opposition.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper cmpaley, I don't try to defend Bush by attacking Democrats. But, I've been here long enough to know that NEITHER SIDE listens to each other. The two sides HEAR each other, but they don't LISTEN. So, what is the point? If you are trying to say that the "left libs" are open minded and the "neocon conservatives" are close minded then it isn't worth it, in my opinion, to even debate you.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Bush has done a few things I like. His reduction of the Federal Income Tax "marriage penalty" was the fair thing to do and has saved us substantial money. His inclusion of a drug benefit in Medicare was long past due. His plan has its problems, but it is certainly better than nothing. It has saved my 78 year old mother literally hundreds of dollars every month. His various programs to require accountability of schools and uniform educational standards are a step in the right direction. Bush is not a completely terrible president. I consider both Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter to be worse presidents that have been in office during my lifetime. Bush has a couple of fatal flaws that to me undermines his presidency: 1) His mingling of religion and government. 2) His refusal to admit a mistake and make changes to policy as the situation changes.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <But, I've been here long enough to know that NEITHER SIDE listens to each other. The two sides HEAR each other, but they don't LISTEN. So, what is the point? < Amen to this !
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Bush is not a completely terrible president. I consider both Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter to be worse presidents that have been in office during my lifetime. < those of us who lived thru those times do know this to be true....but I can tell from the tone of this post that it will just be another bash job and no one will hear a word you say Trippy.. One side will think you are just stupid for believing anything the Bush admin does is short of complete tyranny, and the other side will call you a lib for the fatal flaw comments. I wonder at times why even try on W/E.....Middle ground here is about the width of a pin head. As far as the fatal flaws I agree with both 1/ on the mixing of religion one however I do not thnk he is the first, but he the first to be so blatant about it....and why? Well maybe he really believes all the stuff he tries to pass ( it is possible)- or maybe the country ( and the world in general) has become more divided along religious lines in the last 10 years ? 2/ not admitting mistakes -- this is the one we will remember...he's surely not the first cowboy president ( T Roosevelt comes to mind)- but sometimes he cannot see the forest for the trees. Bad avisors around ( yes men) or his own flaw- again not totally convinced to either side. I love how this thread appears to open a door for listening, then before anyone even gets to respond it is closed. I keep forgetting that GW steering that darn hurricane thing into New Orleans and that the Governor and Mayor there played no part in the disaster that followed -- the magnitude of which no president has had to deal with...and that politics in Louisiana that go back to previous administrations in the White House all contributed to the levees being woefully taken care of by adding pork out the wazoo to funding bills. Or that some people ( not all before anyone has a hissy fit) were too stupid to leave, or decided to stay for the free pickings...but again all W's fault. What was his fault is it was obvious by day 2 or 3 that the plans to recover were a mess...and that there needed to be a lot more action taken and right away. Instead of admitting the situation was as bad as it was, he chose to believe people around him tellinghim it wasn't. This was the time to kick somebehind and get rid of people pronto, and get the correct help in for the people. That is the action I want from my president and it took too darn long. But was Katrina his fault --please already ! It took exactly 3 posts to get to a paragraph where Satan and Bush were in the same thought process..... so as far as trying to rationalize anything -- why bother -- the usual suspects will take their usual positions and fire the same salvos's over and over and over again.... You would think that there at least could be agreement that W has faced some events like no one before him....9/11 / Iraq / 2 horrible hurricane seasons / now an ever escalating M/E situation -- and for anyone to say that Clinton, or Reagan, or Kennedy or any other name anyone ants to throw up there would have gotten thru any of these unscathed is bull hockey.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan So far, only RT's post seems to be attempting to actually take on the challenge presented in Post #1. ecdc is a poster that is reasonable, and I don't think he'd have started the thread if he wasn't genuinely asking the question and willing to read the responses with an open mind. Based on reading his posts over the years, he's not setting anyone up. I think he's trying to evaluate his own reactions to the presidnet, and see if he's over the line or not as far as reacting negatively to him.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan As for me, I will always maintain that in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, he did just about everything right. He struck the right tone in his remarks during those first few months, showed the perfect blend of compassion and outrage and determination. At that point, he was indeed the uniter he said he was.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo I agree Bush did a great job in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, but I think ecdc is referring to after his 2004 re-election. I've been thinking about this for a couple hours and to my surprise couldn't find too much. I think the fact that he finally owned up to mistakes made in Iraq is commendable. I'm also encouraged by the restraint he has used in dealing with Iran and the DPRK. He seems a little less shoot-from-the-hip than in the previous years. I wish I could say I agree with him on immigration and border security, but the one issue I am solidly right-wing, he move left. C’est la vie. But I'm sure there are many moderates and liberals who would agree with his immigration policies.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I consider both Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter to be worse presidents" Oh absolutely terrible. Remember the WIN buttons? Carter was worse, though. I really have a hard time thinking of much Bush has done right. He's really messed up everything. Now, to say I'm just bashing right wingers, well, that's not true. I thought Reagan did a lot of good things, like how he handled the Challenger disaster. He really brought everyone together on that, and led the country in a time of great sorrow. You may not like his politics, but he brought people out of a long imposed misery brought on by Vietnam and Watergate. Bush I managed to put together an amazing international team for the Kuwait war. These guys did SOME things right. Not all, but then, no one can do all things right. The current guy, unfortunately, is just a disaster. And there just isn't much to be said about it more than that.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Bush cut taxes when liberals wanted to raise them and now we have a great economy. Unemployment is under 5% and more people own houses than ever. This is a fact. If libeals want to say we have souplines and the world is going to end have at it. It has been Bush following the same thinking as Reagan and JFK that has us where we are today regarding our economy. A democrat would have killed the economy. Bush has taken down 2 horrible terrorist nations in Afghanistan and Iraq. He has kept the terrorists on the run and has not let the UN or France tell us how we are going to protect ourselves. A democrat would want approval from pathetic countries like France before he made a move. Bush put John Bolton in as our UN ambassador. Brilliant move, Bolton is awesome and he is smacking the worthless dilomats all over Turtle Bay. Great move by the president. Bush has given us two top notch supreme court picks. A democrat would give us more activist judges who could care less about the constitution. Roberts and Alito are great picks by Bush. Bush has not cheated on his wife while president. The original poster will not care about anything I have said, but the voters of America did. Democrats don't have any ideas except raising taxes and giving terrorists more rights and screwing us on Social security. Until they can do better than this they are a total joke as is this topic.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I look and all I see is one failure after another: Iraq, Katrina, etc. This sentence is what started me down the path of this is not an even slant question.... so fair poster or not it drug out the negative connotations immediately as it only took to post 3 to get that ball rolling downhill. All 3 items Trippy mentioned are a good start... Also I second the fact that the way he conducted himself in the days after 9/11 made me proud.....and I could care less what party he belonged to. I know to some it seems like a small detail, but throwing out the first pitch at Yankee Stadium when no one was quite sure what else was going to happen, was the part of his 'cowboy' mentality that I thought sent a great message to the country.....( I have already commented on the negative part of this personality trait) - right time, right moments for me. No Child Left behind has some solid thought in it... the actual admisitration of it is beyond the scope of some administrators IMO though...but it has caused all school districts, rich and poor to take soem account of what is happening in their own district..( this I know first hand ) Withdrawal from the 1998 Kyoto Protocol also makes a lot more sense today as the need to pursue a nationalmissile defense system becomes more andmore apparent as being needed more than prbably any other military need..look at Korea & Iran, and what is happening to Israel today even though those are small variety it shows the vulnerabiility of anyone in the near future to missile attacks from terrorists as well as terrorist backing nations. And althought the temporary guest worker program for the 12 million illegal aliens proposed bothers me on some levels....it is better than any other plan I have heard. All others appear to be unenforceable...without resorting to some sort of military defense and intervention at the border. Those would be my starters also... and just to re state, I am far from a Bush apologist...there are plenty of things I think have been mishandled and he has to take ownership of them being on his watch. But the notion so often put forward here that the man wears a red suit and horns....I believe is just false. And although I may believe along similar paths as GW in 'some' of the same religious infused topics ( i.e. abortion) -and not agree with others, I do admit I struggle with what the governments role should be in those types of issues...whether I believe his take is right or wrong
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Katrina was the fault of a democrat Mayor and govenor who were not ready to take care of their city and state. Not Bush.
Originally Posted By barboy Bush brings integrity and sincerity to the White House. Unfortunately ecdc, I can't think of anything else.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo Here another, I think Bush was correct on Social Security and ignoring the problem isn’t going to make it go away. And I don’t think the Democrats have the courage to glance at it. So from now until I retire, I'm going to be paying large sums of money “retirement†into a system that most of us under 40 will likely never see. This was certainly a case of fear-mongering by the left. Too bad conservative got spooked.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Beau, your post #12 was pathetic but predictable. You can't make a post about good things Bush has done without mindlessly trashing 'libs'. As others have said, your commentary has become completely irrelevant. By the way... you might want to check your facts on the housing thing there cowboy... <<After posting steady increases over the past several years, the nation's homeownership rate — the percentage of households that are owner-occupied — dipped to 68.5 percent during the first three months of this year, compared with 69.1 percent for the same period in 2005.>> Complete article: <a href="http://www.twincities.com/mld/twincities/news/15140400.htm" target="_blank">http://www.twincities.com/mld/ twincities/news/15140400.htm</a>
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Beau, your post #12 was pathetic but predictable. You can't make a post about good things Bush has done without mindlessly trashing 'libs'. As others have said, your commentary has become completely irrelevant." AMEN.
Originally Posted By agent What has George W. Bush done for our family? Owning our own business, he has provided tax relief and a reduction in the captial gains so that we can afford to sell our rental property. For us, this is a big deal!
Originally Posted By ecdc Thanks 2oony. Those kind words mean a lot coming from you. And thanks RT for your genuine response. I actually can get on board with Bush's immigration policy. I have real problems with No Child Left Behind, but I can admire the attempt. Agent, that's awesome about your business! It's rare to hear actual stories about the tax cuts, so that's nice.
