Originally Posted By skinnerbox <a href="http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/10/30/1110431/romney-ad-workers-jeep/" target="_blank">http://thinkprogress.org/econo...rs-jeep/</a> <> Romney’s Misleading Ad Causes Auto Workers To Think They’re Losing Their Jobs By Annie-Rose Strasser on Oct 30, 2012 at 11:55 am Mitt Romney’s misleading new advertisement is causing auto workers to fear they’re losing their jobs. The ad falsely claims car company Chrysler is moving its Jeep production to China, when in fact the company is opening up additional production there, not shifting American jobs overseas. But some auto workers have been calling their union, worried that they’re about to be out of work: Bruce Baumhower, the president of the United Auto Workers local that oversees the major Jeep plant here, said Mr. Romney’s initial comments on moving production to China drew a rash of calls from members concerned about their jobs. When he informed them Chrysler was, in fact, is expanding its Jeep operation here, he said in an interview, “The response has been, ‘That’s pretty pitiful.’ ” The Romney campaign has repeatedly insisted that they are “not going to let our campaign be dictated by fact-checkers,” and this ad seems to be an example with consequences. It has been widely panned as a blatant falsehood thrown out in the final days before the election. But the ad is clearly part of the candidate’s attempt — no matter the facts — to recover his reputation in the auto industry, which is still suffering after Romney published his now-infamous op-ed titled, “Let Detroit Go Bankrupt.” Update: The Romney campaign is doubling down on the false claims and is expanding the ad campaign. <> The Romney ads which claim Jeep is sending American jobs overseas are PATENTLY FALSE. The company is expanding jobs overseas while keeping American jobs here. How can any Romney supporter justify this? Let me guess... "win at all costs." Right, Josh?
Originally Posted By utahjosh From TheBlaze (which you don't trust almost as much as i distrust ThinkProgress) "Bottom Line: Without providing the full context of Fiat’s China talks, the Romney ad offers an incomplete picture of Jeep’s situation and is, therefore, misleading. Now we’re not sure if it .... is as dishonest as accusing someone of killing a steelworker’s wife with cancer, but it’s misleading nonetheless."
Originally Posted By utahjosh More details: "However, this is what the ad states: “Obama took GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy, and sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China. Mitt Romney will fight for every American job.” Technically, none of this is inaccurate. President Obama did take GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy, Chrysler was sold to Fiat, and Fiat is considering adding production jobs in China." The ad is misleading, but it's not an outright blatant lie. But I'd prefer Romney's camp would not mislead in this ad.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I never condone dishonesty.> But you're going to vote for the guy anyway? And before you say "Obama does it too," spare me the false equivalency. Yes there are distortions in some Obama ads, but nothing this blatant. A media critic just pointed out that this is probably the last wide-spread Romney ad there will be. The first ad Romney released for the general election (as opposed to the primary) was the one where Obama can be heard saying "if we keep talking about the economy, we will lose," which was actually Obama quoting John McCain saying that in 2008. It was remarkably, intentionally misleading, and every fact-check and good government group raked Romney over the coals for the blatant dishonesty. Romney refused to pull the ad. It was more important to him to create a negative impression than to be truthful. So he began his campaign dishonestly, and he's ending it dishonestly. And there's been a whole lot of dishonest in between - much more so than with Obama. Luckily, Josh would never condone that.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <"Bottom Line: Without providing the full context of Fiat’s China talks, the Romney ad offers an incomplete picture of Jeep’s situation and is, therefore, misleading. Now we’re not sure if it .... is as dishonest as accusing someone of killing a steelworker’s wife with cancer, but it’s misleading nonetheless."> Bottom line: the steelworker's wife ad was from a superpac, NOT the Obama campaign. This Jeep ad and the earlier one I described WERE from the Romney campaign itself. He's Mitt Romney, and he approved both those messages. Your source is not honest enough to admit that, and indeed dishonest enough to try to create the false equivalency and hope you buy it.
Originally Posted By utahjosh So I should base my entire vote on who has been the least dishonest, and that's the only thing that matters?
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Are you actually suggesting that honesty shouldn't be a consideration?
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Lyin' for the Lord. Lyin' for the Lord. Mormons lyin' Lyin' for the Lord.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>So I should base my entire vote on who has been the least dishonest<< What else is there, really?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan For the record, "misleading" is the same as "lying." A half-truth is not truth. I wish that we could all agree at least on that much. And if Romney wants to be a leader, he should not mislead. Why won't he take responsibility for his life and stop using weasel words when caught in a lie? Try this one, kids: "Mom, when I said I didn't steal that pack of gum from the store yesterday, I may have mislead you a bit." LOL
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan By the way, you know how candidates say "I am Mitt Romney, and I approve of this message?" That's on there to be their seal of approval, so they can't blame a "misleading/lying" statement on some underling. By approving of this message, then it means the buck stops with them. Misleading -- pfffft. What a useless word. The word itself is misleading.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 Anyone who votes based on what they see in an ad no matter who puts the ad in my mind is too stupid to vote and shouldn't bother. Same thing if you listen to what someone on the radio or tv shouts at you. If you're voting for any of those reasons stay at home. The best thing to do is either read each candidate's website or request information. Read up and then make your decision from there.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 I'd never vote for someone based on their TV ads. However, if someone was consistently dishonest in his ads, I think that's a perfectly good reason to vote against him.
Originally Posted By utahjosh skinner, your bullying and belittling only show you for you who really are.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox I guess Josh can't stand it when someone points out the truth to him. Sorry, but I'm done with keeping quiet when I see a political candidate like Romney lying and misleading the public over and over and over again. Romney lied when running for MA Senator against Kennedy in 1994. Romney lied when running for MA Governor in 2002. Romney lied when running for the GOP Presidential nomination in 2008. And Romney is lying again running for President in 2012. You want to believe that Romney isn't a pathological liar, Josh, so anyone who calls out Romney on his BS is apparently a 'bully' in your world. Boo hoo cry me a river. As far belittling your religion... I've got no problem with that. It needs to be belittled, after the political garbage that wealthy Mormons and the LDS leadership has spewed with hundreds of millions in political funding to overturn gay rights, women's rights, minority rights, and civil rights in general. That type of activity is not befitting of a 'Christian' church. Any Christian wishing to follow Jesus' teachings, particularly the Beatitudes, needs to condemn this type of activism from the get-go. Ultra-conservative Republicans are being financed by Mormons like Romney and the LDS leadership and I'm sick of it! And anyone who condones their behavior and goals to take our country back to the 1800's will get zero respect from me.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>So I should base my entire vote on who has been the least dishonest<< Well, there's also the fact that he's a Robber Baron corporate raider.
Originally Posted By ecdc Josh, dude. Make an argument. It's Reason and Logic 101. Accusing everyone of hatred, bigotry, whatever isn't an argument. Saying stuff is wrong isn't an argument. Make. An. Argument.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I'll go with Skinner's approach instead: Blind'd by hate. Blind'd by hate. Skinner is blind'd Blind'd by hate.
Originally Posted By utahjosh There is no argument that can be used when the reply is always "That's a lie."
