Should Firefighters be forced to particpate...

Originally Posted By Darkbeer

This news story does discuss Adult Sexual subject matter...

<a href="http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCulture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200708/CUL20070806b.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewCul
ture.asp?Page=/Culture/archive/200708/CUL20070806b.html</a>

>>A religious legal organization on Monday announced plans to sue the City of San Diego after firefighters there were allegedly forced to participate in the city's "Gay Pride" parade and subjected to "vile sexual taunts."

According to the Thomas More Law Center, four firefighters were forced to participate in the parade against their will and were "subjected to vile sexual taunts from homosexuals lining the parade route." The center has filed a request to sue the city - an administrative procedure - and expects to file a sexual harassment lawsuit in coming weeks.

"These firefighters dedicated their lives to save the lives of others," Richard Thompson, president and chief counsel of the law center, said in a statement. "They did not sign on to become unwilling props to a controversial political and social agenda."

According to the complaint filed with the city, the firemen of Engine 5 told their chief they did not want to appear in the parade but were told the morning of the parade that they were under orders to participate. <<

And here is the actual complaints filed...

<a href="http://www.cybercastnewsservice.org/cns/documents/2007/righttosue.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.cybercastnewsservic
e.org/cns/documents/2007/righttosue.pdf</a>

I think this paragraph is a key statement...

>>This EEO complaint isn't about homosexuality or gay pride. This has to do with people in the workplace being threatened, sexually harassed, and forced to participate in a parade that isn't like other parades and the behavior that is demostrated by the public and some of its participants are what are found to be offensive.<<

 

Originally Posted By Lady Starlight

NO ONE should be forced to participate in ANYTHING they do not belive in or support. Regardless of what your job is!

 

Originally Posted By ADMIN

<font color="#FF0000">Message removed by an administrator. <a href="MsgBoard-Rules.asp" target="_blank">Click here</a> for the LaughingPlace.com Community Standards.</font>

 

Originally Posted By Darkbeer

NO, actually, IMHO, the On Duty Firefighters shouldn't be in any parade, but they all should be required to work support, as that is part of their jobs. Use off duty volunteers and get an "reserve" or collectors Fire Engine.

On the other hand, a workplace is supposed to be free from discrimination and harassment, and it sounds, based on the written complaints, that these 4 firefighters got harassed by some spectators, some of the protestors, and after the parade, some of their fellow workers.

 

Originally Posted By avromark

However during any event like this, people who are otherwise very level headed may become "intoxicated" with the spirit and go a bit wild. Witness Daytona Beach or New Orleans during Spring Break, or Soccer fans after a match... Doubt all these people are rowdy normally.

 

Originally Posted By Inspector 57

<<Use off duty volunteers and get an "reserve" or collectors Fire Engine.>>

Whatever that means.

But thanks for coming back to the thread.

More on topic --

Some macho fireman was subjected to a guy in the crowd saying he was hot. (ADULT CONTENT!) Waaaaaaah! And then that macho fireman had to endure religious protesters! Waaaaaaah! And then some of his fellow workers razzed him about the whole thing! Waaaaaaaah!

The poor guy. It must have been totally devastating.

Luckily, his friends from the militantly pro-Catholic and anti-gay Thomas Moore Law Center were there to help him.

We can only hope that the firemen who were so traumatized by this horrible, HORRIBLE experience will one day be able to carry on again.

The poor, poor men.

 

Originally Posted By Darkbeer

What it means is that OUR tax dollars shouldn't go to having On Duty Public Safety personnel being PART of the Entertainment of the parade. Their job is to handle crowd control, provide medical assistance if needed, etc.

If a group of Firefighters wants to be in a parade (any type of parade), the group should organize, find a group that wants to be part of the parade, then find a suitable vehicle or float, IMHO, the best option is a Fire Engine that is not owned and operated by a governmental agency. Many used fire engines are bought by collectors and used as "show cars". The group of firefighters should arrange for the use of such a vehicle.

Harassment is harassment, and the laws should be treated equally for all. Looks like these 4 Firefighters have a case.

 

Originally Posted By Darkbeer

More on the story...

<a href="http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/metro/20070806-2128-bn06parade.html" target="_blank">http://www.signonsandiego.com/
news/metro/20070806-2128-bn06parade.html</a>

>>Four San Diego city firefighters have filed a complaint with the state saying their superiors forced them to participate in the recent gay pride parade where they became targets of obscene gestures and sexual comments.

An attorney for the four sent a letter to the state Department of Fair Employment and Housing on Aug. 1, requesting the right to file a sexual harassment lawsuit against the San Diego Fire-Rescue Department.

Fire Chief Tracy Jarman issued a statement Monday saying she apologized to the men and plans to have the city's Equal Employment Investigative Office look into their complaints.

Fire Capt. John Ghiotto, Engineer Jason Hewett and firefighters Chad Allison and Alex Kane said they had objected to driving a city firetruck in the July 21 parade on duty, but were ordered to do so to avoid disciplinary action.

“They were getting nowhere through regular channels,†said their attorney, Charles LiMandri, West Coast director of the Thomas More Law Center.<<

 

Originally Posted By Lady Starlight

I agree 100% with your #7 post Darkbeer.
That's pretty much how I felt,but I have a hard time conveying my thoughts when I type. Sorry.

 

Originally Posted By Darkbeer

Interesting comments at the following link made by Steve Yuhas, an openly gay, jewish, disabled vet...

<a href="http://www.opinioneditorials.com/freedomwriters/syuhas_20070807.html" target="_blank">http://www.opinioneditorials.c
om/freedomwriters/syuhas_20070807.html</a>

>>Imagine any other parade and any other group being forced to march in it. Imagine the hoopla if a pro-life parade was held and any government employee was forced to march. The ACLU would be having a fit if just one public servant was ordered to march in that parade (they’d demand money if one gallon of city gas was used to take a fire engine down a street in support of life). But where are they when four firefighters are used as sex toys by the fire chief?

Nowhere, but then again they were busy marching in the parade too because what would a gay day parade be without the ACLU squarely (or queerly) in line.<<

 

Originally Posted By Dave

>>>NO, actually, IMHO, the On Duty Firefighters shouldn't be in any parade, but they all should be required to work support, as that is part of their jobs. Use off duty volunteers and get an "reserve" or collectors Fire Engine.

What it means is that OUR tax dollars shouldn't go to having On Duty Public Safety personnel being PART of the Entertainment of the parade<<<

Well I've known every Firefighter that has set foot in LACFD station 163 for the past 25 years on a personal basis and you can rest assured that when they are participating in the city’s annual Christmas parade that the other local station have been moved up to cover for them. And if they had to roll to an emergency because beer drinking drunk has crashed into someone or someone is having a heart attack they would and have pulled the truck over to the intersection and moved the crowd out of the way and roll on the call. No one has ever died in all the years of the parade.


>>>>If a group of Firefighters wants to be in a parade (any type of parade), the group should organize, find a group that wants to be part of the parade, then find a suitable vehicle or float, IMHO, the best option is a Fire Engine that is not owned and operated by a governmental agency. Many used fire engines are bought by collectors and used as "show cars". The group of firefighters should arrange for the use of such a vehicle. <<<<

They do these things for public relations so that little kids won’t be afraid of firefighters. What little kid wants to see some cubby retired fireman driving a model A fire truck. They want to see the new lights and sirens.

 

Originally Posted By Dave

>>>But thanks for coming back to the thread.<<<

No kidding, he must feel real passionate on this subject

 

Originally Posted By avromark

<<What little kid wants to see some cubby retired fireman driving a model A fire truck>> Isn't Cubby a mouseketeer? See we need an edit button!

 

Originally Posted By Dave

yes we do....oh wait I have one. Oh well

 

Originally Posted By Dave

Actually I was trying to be politically correct. Okay, what little kid wants to see some fat retired fireman driving a model A fire truck

 

Originally Posted By debtee

I agree with Inspector on this one.

Geez the poor darlings how ever will they cope with the trauma?

Policemen are subjected to this sort of behaviour and worse all the time when they have to police football matches and other sporting events and we don't hear them complaining.

This looks like a case of not liking the job they were sent to rather then any serious harrassment.

Get over themselves!

 

Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder

And gee, for the sake of balance, is there another side to this, per chance?

 

Originally Posted By Mr X

Well, Deb, this got me to thinking...

Police take a job in the community that, by nature, results in stress and danger, and sometimes horrible and personal comments that are unwarrented.

Firefighters certainly do NOT accept that as part of their "job description". They are sort of the "anti-cops" in my opinion...heroic folks who risk life and limb for the common good, that's the basic job description (cops do take risks, but for some it's for the pleasure of causing suffering to others, power tripping, and getting a sweet early retirement after all that "fun" stufff).

So, I don't really see the correlation between firefighters and cops...plus the city didn't force cops to march down the parade route right (THAT would have been far uglier I think).

Why is it that if a woman is subjected to the same situation it would be horrible, but for a man they should just "suck it up"?

Thinking along the lines of the homosexual argument, I wonder how many of those guys would be uncomfortable in a reversed situation with women hurling out catcalls and sexually suggestive gestures.

Inspector, I ALWAYS appreciate your thoughts and opinions...but in this case I think you are reacting without thinking the whole thing through.

Those individuals were subjected to harrassment that they would NEVER have voluntarily been involved in...the fact that they were "under orders" certainly makes the powers that be somewhat liable...though the actual sexual offenders should have been identified and prosecuted (I understand that's hard to do in a "parade" environment).

That's my controversial take, at first glance. I'll certainly think on this one more and see if my position changes...but I feel this way at this time anyway.

 

Originally Posted By Darkbeer

Here is a comment I found at another board about this matter...

>>I don't understand how "a little bit of heckling" should be normal in the workplace? The firefighters were at their workplace, that sort of behavior would not be tolerated in any other work environment, why should it be any different for firefighters?<<

 

Originally Posted By Mrs ElderP

I'm not willing to comment on Firefighters in the parade mentioned in this article.

However, in our local community Fourth of July Parade every year we have: 1) the Local City Fire Department, 2) the county Fire Department, and 3) the Forest Service Fire Department. All are driving their official trucks, or what look exactly like their offical trucks! Also, "Sparky" the fire dog mascot rides on one truck every year. They all get big cheers every year, and the first year we lived here (July of '04) they led off the parade and got MASSIVE cheers. This year the local Fire Chief (in his uniform) was the honorary parade mascot guy. (What do you call that position?) We live in the national forest, with the threat of Forest Fires every summer and fall, and in July of '04 they had put out a large fire the October before, saving the homes of most of the people on the Parade route.

I would be very sad if the fall out of this was that Fire Departements weren't allowed to participate in community parades anymore.