Originally Posted By RC Collins This is from another WE thread and I didn’t want it to get lost, because many posts have been added since yours: I had written: "To me and many other Christians, the heart of Christianity is fellowship with Jesus Christ." You wrote: >>I'm really curious about this statement - can some of you "true believers" elaborate on this relationship you feel with Jesus? What do you really mean when you make statements like this? Do you mean you really feel a true love for this person you've never met? Or is it more of a devotion to his teachings? I ask because I grew up Catholic, and for a very long time I was quite devout, but I never felt that way about Jesus the person. I felt in-tune and connected to the whole Church - Jesus was just a part of the whole. But when I hear evangelicals talking, it's always about this relationship with Jesus. Why the emphasis?<< While it is true I have never met Jesus Christ in the same way that I’ve met Michael Eisner and shook his hand (this was during the Frank Wells era, so he was still okay), I have much more of a relationship with Jesus than Eisner. The Bible is His Word. I read it, I study it, I meditate on it. The Church is His “Body†(He does have an actual, physical body, too.) I am part of that. I talk with Him, and He talks back. I’ve never heard Him answer audibly, or in a way that someone else standing right there would hear. But in my heart, and in my life, He has communicated with me. Most of all, though, I rely on His written word. Since Jesus Christ is an actual human being, with a human body and soul, I can relate to Him. He lived on this very Earth. He is my Savior and my Lord. All to Him I owe. I submit myself into His service. So, there is this relationship. Like any relationship, it gets stronger if I tend to it. If I blow it off, it starts to wither. But He’ll never forsake me entirely. The Church would be just another human organization if He wasn’t the cornerstone. Someday, I will actually be freed of my sin nature and my mortality, and can continue my fellowship with Him on a deeper level, and even be able to literally touch Him – even the very wounds that provided for my redemption. You may find it informative to check out a couple of books by one of my favorite authors, Ron Rhodes (<a href="http://www.ronrhodes.org/Invitation.html" target="_blank">http://www.ronrhodes.org/Invitation.html</a>) I have read both of these books: _Christ Before the Manger: The Life and Times of the Preincarnate Christ_ <a href="http://www.ronrhodes.org/Manger.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ronrhodes.org/Manger.htm</a> (hard copy) <a href="http://www.ronrhodes.org/Manger-EB.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ronrhodes.org/Manger-EB.htm</a> (electronic version) _The Heart of Christianity: What It Means to Believe in Jesus_ <a href="http://www.ronrhodes.org/Heart-EB.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ronrhodes.org/Heart-EB.htm</a> (electronic version) Also, given your background, Francis Beckwith may have stuff relevant to you. (<a href="http://www.francisbeckwith.com/" target="_blank">http://www.francisbeckwith.com/</a>) Beckwith was President of the Evangelical Theological Society, if I recall correctly, he recently resigned that position and returned to the Roman Catholic Church, as he considers it the “default†Christian Church and no longer saw a need to consider himself in protest (Protestant). (I do not identity as a Roman Catholic myself.) I hope I have explained myself.
Originally Posted By plpeters70 Thanks for taking the time to write about this. Your answer is basically what I was expecting - and have heard from others before, but I appreciate you taking the time to explain it to me. And I'll have to check out those links you provided - they look interesting. While I can understand your point about reading his "words" and learning from them, I don't quite see how it goes to this level of obvious worship you display in your writing. I can understand admiring the things he said, and I can even understand someone feeling thankful towards him for "saving" humanity from sin (assumming you believe all this), but I still don't get the "love" thing. There seems to be this level of devotion amongst some Christians that just doesn't seem justified. As I said, I understand appreciating and admiring the man, but beyond that, I just don't get it.
Originally Posted By gadzuux I read this shortly after I read the 'letters to the editor' section in today's SF chronicle. There's a letter today from a reader who's worried about ... "the birds, my friends in the sky". I see a parallel between people who claim to have a 'personal relationship with jesus' to this woman who thinks the birds are 'her friends in the sky'. Because this relationship is whatever you say it is, you get to define who your jesus is. The birds have no say in the matter, it's all just in your own head. Some may think that's insensitive, but I don't. It's firmly grounded reality - it's living in the here and now.
Originally Posted By mele If you don't believe in Jesus spiritually, then a person who describes their relationship with Him sounds like those stalkers who have convinced themselves that they have a relationship with a celebrity. If Jesus/God don't exist, then it's completely made up. If Jesus/God do exist, then it's completely possible to have a spiritual connection relationship with them. People who pray feel as if God is listening and answering their prayers and guiding them. It sounds crazy to skeptics but is real to the people who say it.
Originally Posted By RC Collins Right. I can't prove it to anyone else, but I do have a relationship with Him. He is there in my life. As for the level of devotion to Jesus, it is because, according to the Bible, He is God. Aside from all that He has done by conquering sin and death, He is Lord. I can think of no other being or cause than God that deserves my devotion more. (Here come the attacks on God's character...)
