Originally Posted By Mr X Wow. Tell us you you REALLY feel, Jimmy! <a href="http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/05/19/carter.blair.ap/index.html" target="_blank">http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WO RLD/europe/05/19/carter.blair.ap/index.html</a>
Originally Posted By jonvn Carter was a terrible president, terrible now. He was simply an inappropriate choice on many levels. He was, and continues to be, a disaster.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Carter's not without his point, he just makes it in an odd and roundabout manner that unnecessarily bashes britain along the way. If you believe that the war in iraq is wrong and have believed that from the beginning, as carter does (and me too) then britain's involvement has been that of an enabler - allowing the US more political cover from a series of disastrous decisions. This is especially surprising considering that britain never did buy in to the illusions and scare-mongering that the bush administration conjured up. But they predominant reason for britain's involvement was out of a sense of duty and support as our ally. It was always a situation of them supporting the US effort, and they would never have instigated this attack on their own. And maybe, neither would we. Hence the mocking of blair as "bush's poodle". I don't share this opinion, and I hold tony blair in high regard. I appreciate the commitment and sacrifices of the british people, even as I oppose the iraq action itself. Britain has shown their true colors as a friend and ally in bad times, and that special relationship is to be nurtured and cherished - not exploited and insulted. Carter clearly overstepped the bounds of diplomacy and deserves whatever harsh criticism that may come his way. But as with so many left/right divides, it doesn't automatically invalidate his larger point.
Originally Posted By DAR Whether or not Britian would have supported us in this endeavor, Tony Blair is a good man and deserves to be treated with respect.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Carter was a good man but a poor president. Now he's just senile. Kind of like Sophia in Golden Girls, he doesn't know when to shut up.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad This is not true of Carter. If you go back and study (becuase I assume you are too young to remember) his presidency, most of it shifted when the attempted rescue of the Iran Hostages was unsuccessful. Had this been a success, history would be far far far more kind. No president is without mistakes. Carter has done many good things since his presidency. Yes I think now he may be suffering from age in some fashion. But he certainly has a right to voice his opinion. If he disagrees with you, that doesn't make him by default a "bad former president." To lay a blanket statement like "Carter was a bad president, and has been a bad guy since, and is a bad guy now," is a very sterotypical and uneducated approach. Now using the word "because" in there and backing it up with facts and events that people can relate to would be a great way to offer a position and have some evidence to support it. That's the way you change people's minds. Simply making blanket insults is not effective at all.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA I don't think Carter is a bad person, nor do I feel he's senile. *eye roll* People do develop and learn and change. Just because Carter wasn't a popular President, does not make him valueless. Heck, we allowed Richard Nixon to become an 'elder statesman' of sorts after he was President of the United States, and he was as corrupt as they come.
Originally Posted By jonvn "This is not true of Carter. If you go back and study (becuase I assume you are too young to remember) his presidency" I am quite old enough to remember his presidency, thank you. "Carter was a bad president, and has been a bad guy since, and is a bad guy now," Who are you quoting? I didn't say he was a BAD guy, just inept. And he was. And continues to be. "most of it shifted when the attempted rescue of the Iran Hostages was unsuccessful." And the economy was a disaster. And he was utterly ineffectual.
Originally Posted By Disneyman55 Not to mention the glorious, encouraging, awe inspriring "Malaise" Speech. Or his bungling of the Oil Embargo. Or the drastic if not massive inflation. I remember the cost of something simple like a candybar increasing 2 fold in price when I was a child. I also remember my dad, desperate for work along with many of his friends because of the sharp rise in unemployment. I remember Bhreznev (sic) sneezing and Carter having a hysterectomy of fear trying to appease him. Yeah, his opinion, although valid, does not have much value.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<Not to mention the glorious, encouraging, awe inspriring "Malaise" Speech.>> If we as a nation would have actually listened to what Carter had to say we would all be a lot better off right now. Think about this speech the next time you put $4 per gallon gas in your tank. (By the way... Carter never used the term 'malaise' in his speech; that is a term the press came up with.) <<Good evening. This is a special night for me. Exactly three years ago, on July 15, 1976, I accepted the nomination of my party to run for president of the United States. I promised you a president who is not isolated from the people, who feels your pain, and who shares your dreams and who draws his strength and his wisdom from you. During the past three years I've spoken to you on many occasions about national concerns, the energy crisis, reorganizing the government, our nation's economy, and issues of war and especially peace. But over those years the subjects of the speeches, the talks, and the press conferences have become increasingly narrow, focused more and more on what the isolated world of Washington thinks is important. Gradually, you've heard more and more about what the government thinks or what the government should be doing and less and less about our nation's hopes, our dreams, and our vision of the future. Ten days ago I had planned to speak to you again about a very important subject -- energy. For the fifth time I would have described the urgency of the problem and laid out a series of legislative recommendations to the Congress. But as I was preparing to speak, I began to ask myself the same question that I now know has been troubling many of you. Why have we not been able to get together as a nation to resolve our serious energy problem? It's clear that the true problems of our Nation are much deeper -- deeper than gasoline lines or energy shortages, deeper even than inflation or recession. And I realize more than ever that as president I need your help. So I decided to reach out and listen to the voices of America. I invited to Camp David people from almost every segment of our society -- business and labor, teachers and preachers, governors, mayors, and private citizens. And then I left Camp David to listen to other Americans, men and women like you. It has been an extraordinary ten days, and I want to share with you what I've heard. First of all, I got a lot of personal advice. Let me quote a few of the typical comments that I wrote down. This from a southern governor: "Mr. President, you are not leading this nation -- you're just managing the government." "You don't see the people enough any more." "Some of your Cabinet members don't seem loyal. There is not enough discipline among your disciples." "Don't talk to us about politics or the mechanics of government, but about an understanding of our common good." "Mr. President, we're in trouble. Talk to us about blood and sweat and tears." Source: <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carter/filmmore/ps_crisis.html" target="_blank">http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/c arter/filmmore/ps_crisis.html</a>
Originally Posted By vbdad55 He was inept as president. As a former president, he is inept. I have to agree - and I am well old enough also -- the word boob comes to mind when thinking back to those 4 years.
Originally Posted By jdub >> the word boob comes to mind when thinking back to those 4 years.<< Do these 8, by contrast, constitute a full rack?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I hope some here have actually taken the time to read Carter's "malaise" speech. He very accurately identified problems that we are now faced with over 25 years later. He was a poor communicator, so he was not able to get our attention like he should have. But he was more accurate and honest in laying out the problems facing American than any president has been since him. If only Reagan, with his great communication skills, could have told us the truth instead of telling us a bunch of crap that we liked hearing.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <If only Reagan, with his great communication skills, could have told us the truth instead of telling us a bunch of crap that we liked hearing.> Optimism is not a bunch of crap, just as pessimism isn't the truth.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <<If only Reagan, with his great communication skills, .> Optimism is not a bunch of crap, just as pessimism isn't the truth. < Amen ! >....could have told us the truth instead of telling us a bunch of crap that we liked hearing> no one brought up Bill...... ( rumbling heard at the Clinton shrine -- LOL ! ) - sorry RT - couldn't resist
Originally Posted By jonvn Optimism is essential. Even if you have problems, you have to be optimistic to want to fix them. And sometimes, optimism in itself will fix problems, when the problem is pessimism itself. That was the main thing that Roosevelt brought with him when he came into office. Optimism, and the idea that we are a great country and to stop being afraid. Something that Hoover was unable and unwilling to do.
Originally Posted By Mr X Same could be said for Carter/Reagan, no? I do agree, for a leader to be "simply" pessimistic is not helpful at all...thus, the Carter legacy (and even his "space" message sounded depressed!! anyone ever checked that out?). BUT, I do believe that he was, and is, still a very HONEST guy...so when he throws out such harsh comments to the current administration I think it's worthy of consideration at the very least. And the white house "slamming back", calling him irrelevant and all that...well, if the truth hurts right? I don't think ANY former commander in chief is "irrelevant". They all know a heck of a lot more than the rest of us about how things REALLY work and what might or might not be the best course of action. Yes, even Carter.
