Originally Posted By ecdc It's been said 'round these parts that We Are So Screwed, or WASS (TM, Mawnck Enterprises, LTD) a sentiment that, depending on my mood, I've either guffawed at or echoed. Now comes word that India has developed a missile capable of hitting Beijing. Which makes me wonder, is all our hand wringing over American insanity a waste of time? Yeah, the tea baggers are crazy and annoying, but is this the real issue? We've had a good laugh (at least late night talk shows have) at North Korea's failed missile launch. Hardy-har, but it's just a matter of time, isn't it, before they get it right? And the discussion about Iran...this is the angst of people who measure time in minutes or days at most, not decades. Iran WILL get a nuclear weapon someday. Them and a dozen other countries we don't trust. I'm gratified that so far, no one has been crazy enough to use the Bomb since Nagasaki. Maybe it means that everyone gets just how bad it'd be. But it only takes one...one nutcase destined to have us all meet Allah, Jesus, or Ra. Are we destined for nuclear annihilation--maybe not in my lifetime, maybe not in my children's, but someday? Or is there a solution?
Originally Posted By dshyates Once we developed the ability to distort the world, it's only a matter of time before we do it.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck What freaks me out is that there are so many people in the world who want it to happen. Hell, they are praying for it to happen. Sometimes we "civilized" Humans seem very primitive indeed, and in the end, we will probably get just what we deserve.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>(TM, Mawnck Enterprises, LTD)<< You laugh now, but you won't be when that trade mark lands me in the 1%. American dream, baby! >>Hardy-har, but it's just a matter of time, isn't it, before they get it right?<< Actually, probably not. At least, not on a world apocalypse level, and certainly nothing that could ever threaten the USA. You have to remember just how borked that country is. I read a report (NPR's site I think, since I'm trying to curtail my news-following obsession) about how the early space programs of the US and USSR had only about a 50% success rate, and that was with the full backing of their respective superpower governments, unlimited material resources, and nobody with already-fully-operational weapons systems pointed at them. Even if North Korea or Iran do manage to pull it together sufficiently to set off one nuke, that'll be the last one they ever set off. Yeah, I think sooner or later we (meaning humanity) will screw up the world in a major way (as if we haven't already done it), but you'll have to ask Harold Camping how it actually happens, cause the rest of us can't see the future. I'm much more worried about a fully nuclear country (us) falling under the control of insane nationalist zealots. I rather suspect that soon, democracy as we know it will no longer be possible, **IF** we continue in the direction we're heading. Crazy people can't be governed, only controlled. It'll be a sad day when that becomes necessary, but sometimes, things are necessary. Society must function. I think there are too many people on "my" side that are in denial about this. Once there is no more possibility of working together, one group is going to be forced to subjugate the other. We need to be ready and willing to be that group, or there really is going to be trouble on a global scale. We need to realize that a couple million nutjobs, totally under the spell of an advanced, sophisticated psychological propaganda machine, going on about literally fighting to "take back" their country .... that's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Just ask Germany. How's that for WASS? I probably need to go to Disneyland more often, huh.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer I don't think we'll see a full scale nuclear war on the scale that we feared during the Cold War. But I think it is very likely that we'll see an attack that involves a nuclear bomb or two in our lifetimes. It might be a terrorist attack, or an attack between two countries like India and Pakistan, or the use of tactical nukes on a conventional battlefield. Right now there's this idea that if one nation uses nukes against another the rest of the world would come down on them hard. But I think it's far more likely that there would be expressions of outrage but there wouldn't be an attack in response by the world in general. The tactic of responding to nuclear attack with more nuclear attacks by third parties is not going to happen. We could see tactical nukes on the battlefield, particularly if a country with nukes is losing on the conventional battlefield. But large scale attacks against civilian targets is pretty unlikely, because it opens you up for an attack in kind. That isn't the kind of war you can win.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer "I'm much more worried about a fully nuclear country (us) falling under the control of insane nationalist zealots. I rather suspect that soon, democracy as we know it will no longer be possible, **IF** we continue in the direction we're heading." This. This is why paying attention to American politics is so important. Luckily, the current candidates are not insane and willing to throw away American lives because they lack the critical thinking skills that would keep you from invading another country based on lies. You can't profiteer off a nuclear war, though, so we're safe as long as the wealthy are controlling the government.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "You can't profiteer off a nuclear war, though, so we're safe as long as the wealthy are controlling the government. " There is an old Argentinian comic strip called "Mafalda". There is a strip that says basically the same thing.
Originally Posted By ecdc I'm not convinced that U.S. nationalists are more of a worry than foreign extremists, but the other points are well taken. I don't think the media polarization and attempt to portray everything as extreme left vs extreme right is an accurate reflection of where Americans are. Though I do appreciate how quickly, especially given the media's need to do this, things could degenerate, but we're not about to elect High Chancellor Sutler yet.
Originally Posted By fkurucz "but we're not about to elect High Chancellor Sutler yet" We are steadily getting closer though.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>We are steadily getting closer though.<< This. "We aren't there yet" is a hollow reassurance. Once we are there, it's too late.
