Originally Posted By Figurehead FIRST, I'm not trying to cause any trouble, let's get that out of the way right now... While in DCA last week waiting outside TOT we sat by a street lamp. I recognized the pattern around the base immediately (it's used a lot in Japanese tattoo designs) and recognized the swastika in the design. What gets me is after all of the carefull playing Disney usualy goes through, how could this design be overlooked? Yes, I realize it's a "classic" ornate base design for street lamps of that period, but really... what if someone took offense to it? I mean, the Nazis pretty much took a millenium old design used by Asains and American Indians and turned it into a taboo symbol. Don't you think Disney would have noticed this? Let me get the pic........
Originally Posted By Figurehead Here it is: <a href="http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/7308/disswas.jpg" target="_blank">http://img294.imageshack.us/im...swas.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By danyoung They say that if you put a thousand monkeys in front of a thousand typewriters for a thousand years, one of them will type something meaningful. In the same way, you put enough Asian characters together and some combination is going to make up a symbol that wasn't intended. Now that it's been noticed, however, I think Disney should do the right thing and make an adjustment.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>What gets me is after all of the carefull playing Disney usualy goes through, how could this design be overlooked?<< <a href="http://media.photobucket.com/image/disneyland,%20monorial,%20patch/springstar856/Patch007.jpg" target="_blank">http://media.photobucket.com/i...h007.jpg</a>
Originally Posted By Faline That patch is something else. And here is something spoken of recently, just to get into the spirit of things: <a href="http://parkpennies.com/1_dr_disneyland/dr0099lg.jpg" target="_blank">http://parkpennies.com/1_dr_di...99lg.jpg</a> It does make you wonder about the swastika, doesn't it? I suppose it's possible to overlook it. If I hadn't had it pointed out to me, I doubt I would ever have noticed it.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "What gets me is after all of the carefull playing Disney usualy goes through, how could this design be overlooked?" Millions of people pass that post every year and don't notice the design. I hope that no one is offended, but I don't see why this should be an issue. Clearly that post isn't intended to be a swastika.
Originally Posted By danyoung 2oony, I'm not getting what you were pointing out in the monorail patch.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Yes, the patch sent out to D23 members said MONROAIL. The swastika one is sort of an unfortunate accident, which I think can happen with geometric patterns or abstract shapes. I don't think it would be spotted even close up, as the major design element is two interlocking T-shapes. (Hard to describe in words, would be easier to sketch) so the resulting swastika shape is unintentional and probably wasn't obvious during the design phase.
Originally Posted By Figurehead Well, 1/2 & 1/2.... the design in question is used HEAVILY in Japanese prints and is purposely made to incorporate the swastika into it (in the society it orginated from it DID NOT mean what the Nazis addopted it to mean). In art design, it is very well known that the swastikas are there. Art design, such as the people that designed or chose that patern for the bases of the street lightes. It couldn't have been an accident if anyone with knowledge designed them... only if they just let someone unknowing and not in the field of art design pick the pattern.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>It couldn't have been an accident if anyone with knowledge designed them<< I disagree. When you're designing something, it's quite common to come up with something unintentional in the "negative space" for instance. It happens all the time. I'm saying that the main design element here is the T shapes -- in a repeated pattern around the base of the post, one right side up, the next upside down. A side effect of that design creates the swastika shape. I am certain it was unintentional. In paintings, sometime a bit of shadow or a splotch of paint will look like something else -- almost like finding shapes in the clouds -- it is organic, unintended, an "accident."
Originally Posted By Figurehead Yes, that MAY be the case, however as I mentioned, this is not an original pattern. This is a pattern that has been used for centuries and is KNOWN to contain the swastika. I'm not arguing with you, and agree that if it were original in design it could be accidental. Perhaps it was used because it DOES come from the time period it represents. Perhaps it was used and they hoped the swastikas were over looked. However if that were the case, there were many other designs used at that time for lamp post bases that could have been used instead. I AM glad tho we can all have a thaughtful conversation about it.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Perhaps it was used and they hoped the swastikas were over looked.<< See, that's the part I don't see as possible. Remember some years back, when there was controversy about Triton's castle on the Little Mermaid poster? Some people saw a penis clearly among the spires of the sand castle, others did not. There were rumors it was intentional placement by a disgruntled artist. I'm of the opinion that usually, when you hear hooves in the distance, it's probably horses, not zebras. Knowing that Disney is a huge company with a lot to lose when unflattering publicity happens, I don't think they ever d anything hoping that "people won't notice." We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I think it was an accidental thing. Lots of interesting things here, though, and maybe this one will show up too! <a href="http://www.snopes.com/disney/disney.asp" target="_blank">http://www.snopes.com/disney/disney.asp</a>
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "See, it's not just one post, it's all of them." Even more reason to say this isn't a big deal. With that many posts around the park you'd think someone would have been outraged about this before now.
Originally Posted By Figurehead I meant it's on all of the lamp posts aroun the TOT, I didn't even check the other areas or Disneyland. That area is fairly new and I am sure I'm not the only person that has noticed it.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Still, they are in an area with exposure to millions of people. I suppose if enough people complain they should be taken out, but I really don't think such action is warranted.
Originally Posted By Figurehead Oh neither do I. I just find it hard to believe that SOMEONE hasn't already tried to get them taken out. In today's society everything having to be politicaly correct... ya know. Just imagine what some folks would have done TODAY if Walt was still here and saw him smoking as he walked through his park.
