Originally Posted By schoolsinger The dept of the US government has recently exceeded the ten trillion dollar mark! That amounts to over $33,000 per man woman and child living in this country! And this debt just keeps getting higher and higher. Our politicians spend like clueless kids in a mall will credit card. It does not look like they will change anytime soon. Regardless of whether you vote for Obama or McCain you will vote for someone who will increase our dept even more. Both guys are in support of spending hundreds of billions of dollars to bail out troubled companies. In the case of McCain, He will drag out the very expensive Iraq war for who knows how long. With Obama, he will make a government health care system that we can't afford. The situation looks so bleak I think one of two things will happen. Either the United States goes bankrupt, or they will print so much money that our cash won't be worth much more than Monopoly money. Either way this country is jacked. I highly doubt there will be a Disney style ending where everyone lives happily ever after. Get your popcorn ready and watch as the United States as we know it collapses!
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy Your figure doesn't even include the liabilities for Social Security and Medicare. It gets even worse when you consider the bills coming due for those programs.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>That amounts to over $33,000 per man woman and child living in this country! << Yes, but remember. We don't all have to pay an equal $33,000. The extremely wealthy, who are grateful, patriotic people who don't want to see the country they owe their success to fail, will step up to the plate and pay a share of the tax burden proportional to their success. Oh, wait ...
Originally Posted By Mrs ElderP I agree, sooner or later, probably sooner, the national debt is going to bring down the government as we know it. Hopefully we can put something in place after that that keeps us all safe and fed. But, I don't know. This is just too easy an issue for pollitions to ignore. To truly fight the national debts is going to require more taxes and less programs for your less taxes, it's not going to be pretty. And, of course you're right, neither canidate is dealing with it. Sport Goofy is right, to really deal with our national debt you'd have to take on SSI and Medicare. Not going to happen.
Originally Posted By fkurucz I expect that the powers that be will eventually have no choice but to inflate the debt away. Having lived in a country that did this (Mexico) I can assure everyone here that near hyper-inflation is no fun. It was surreal to go to the super market week after week and to be able to actually see prices rise faster than paychecks.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << I expect that the powers that be will eventually have no choice but to inflate the debt away. >> I don't think the powers that be are going to get to make a choice on that one. The markets might have other ideas.
Originally Posted By schoolsinger >>>Your figure doesn't even include the liabilities for Social Security and Medicare. It gets even worse when you consider the bills coming due for those programs.<<< If you add those programs you mentioned with Medicaid and some other similar things it bumpes the number up to over 59 trillion dollars!
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy ^^ Oh, and now you can add the liabilities for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac for several trillion more dollars. Of course, like SS and Medicare, the government is treating those as off balance sheet transactions so that the numbers don't look so scary.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << So now is the perfect time to implement universal health care, right? >> How about we just let people run rampant with disease to add to our problems? Maybe a global pandemic will send us from a global economic slowdown to the next great depression.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<So now is the perfect time to implement universal health care, right?>> Universal heathcare would be a pay as you go system, unlike SS which collects the money and spends the surplus. And it would have the bargaining power to get big pharma and other health care big biz to stop raping us by charging 2-3 times what they charge in other industrialized countries. The over head savings buy getting for profit insurance out of the way as middlemen cab pay to cover the currently uninsured. Aggregate spending could actually come down. Don't worry Josh, as vbdad has pointed out, Corporate America will soon be phasing out Health Insurance as a benefit, just like they did with pensions. When that comes to pass, and you start getting quotes for non group based coverage for your family, you will be screaming for and demanding universal healthcare.
Originally Posted By fkurucz Every time I see one of those begging jars with the picture of some uninsured sick kid who can't get treatment because his family isn't poor enough to qualify for medicaid, I am embarrased to be an American.
Originally Posted By fkurucz I am surprised by your attitude Josh. I was always under the impression that the LDS believed in the "common good". Should we also abolish public schools and let everyone pay directly for their kids education? I'm certain that the $1000-2000 dollars you might save on taxes woukld easily cover funding a private education for you r family, right? Every man for himself, right? Survival of the fittest, right? I have never understood those who reject biological darwinismm and embrace social darwinism.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Should we also abolish public schools and let everyone pay directly for their kids education? I'm certain that the $1000-2000 dollars you might save on taxes woukld easily cover funding a private education for you r family, right? Every man for himself, right? Survival of the fittest, right? < maybe up there in Cheeseland $1k-$2k. I pay $12000 per year in property taxes of which 81% go to public education ( that I don't even use as my child goes to private school ) - Many in my area paying $20K and more property taxes and they are actually higher in the City of Chicago rate % wise than by me. and in the city they get to pay if for crappy schools ( for the most part ) -
Originally Posted By vbdad55 I believe a lot of things need to go back to the drawing board. In Illinois Casino gambling revenues were supposedly going to help fund public schools - but the politicians here ( read Obama and buds here folks ) - re wrote the bills and they only use Casino monies now for 'over and above' expenses - the rest of the money now goes to pork projects --
Originally Posted By vbdad55 and before anyone says show me what Obama wrote - he is part and parcel of the Illinois Democratic party that runs the house and senate in Illinois,the governorship, the mayor of Chicago and most other major offices and has for quite a while. Can't blame the GOP for the mess here... they are dumb as rocks here in Illinois and can't get elected to save their souls
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<I pay $12000 per year in property taxes of which 81% go to public education ( that I don't even use as my child goes to private school ) - >> I am sorry to hear that. Out here not even a $1,000,000 house pays that kind of prop tax. <<Many in my area paying $20K and more property taxes and they are actually higher in the City of Chicago rate % wise than by me.>> That is simply mind boggling. I feel that I should send Douglas Bruce a personal thank you note.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 $550,000 house ( avg house price btw) in my burb = $12000-$13000 in property taxes. In Chicago would be slightly higher...except those that have recently appreciated and are older where tax increases haven't caught up yet.
