Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/08/atheist.soldier/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/...dex.html</a>
Originally Posted By EighthDwarf Cool, I get to make the first comment. Frankly, I think all of our atheist soldiers should be forced to believe in a religion. It doesn't matter which one so long as it condones going into foreign countries to make oil magnates wealthy, blowing up civilians, and forcing a political agenda down the throats of the populace. So I guess whichever religion Dick Cheney belongs to should become the national religion. Where's a flag to burn when you need it....
Originally Posted By dshyates I have been hearing about this for a while now. Things like if you don't pray with them you get to clean out the latrines. But from what i understand its not mainstream christianity being forced, but devout evangelicalism. Damnit, why won't the fricken' Christians stop forcing ther religion on people. The next one who approaches me may just get a face full of fist.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 "Religious discrimination is a violation of the First Amendment and is also against military policy. The Pentagon refused to discuss specifics of Hall's case -- citing the litigation. But Deputy Undersecretary Bill Carr said complaints of evangelizing are 'relatively rare.' He also said the Pentagon is not pushing one faith among troops." Okay, so the OFFICIAL policy is that the military doesn't have a religion. That's good to know. But, in practice, that position is apparently meaningless. "[Hall, the soldier] also said he missed out on promotions because he is an atheist. 'I was told because I can't put my personal beliefs aside and pray with troops I wouldn't make a good leader,' Hall said." One would think the military would get this by now... It's not okay to have the "right" policy on paper -- and to then tolerate, even encourage, violations of that policy in everyday military life. It's not fair to the individuals involved to pretend that the existence of a policy protects them. And it's stupid to believe that the mere existence of the policy is ultimately going to protect the military from successful challenges. How well has that "it's not our policy" line worked as an institutional defense regarding the treatment of prisoners at Gitmo? Or the sexual mistreatment of female cadets? Or the military's repeated misrepresentation to families of the circumstances in which their loved ones died while in service? Policies, schmolicies. When the military culture routinely turns a blind eye to violations of its own written guidelines, victimizes individuals, then reflexively hides behind its "policies" when caught, it's time to go in and make some major organizational change. If it takes lawsuits to do it, so be it. Hall will undoubtedly be run through the wringer for bringing this action. But good for him for taking it all the way. It's not his fault it had to come to this. I'm impressed that he's not suing for compensation, only for fair treatment.
Originally Posted By X-san Are we talking something like this? Senior Drill Instructor Hartman: "Private Joker, do you believe in the Virgin Mary?" Private Joker: "Sir, no sir!" Harman (drops trash can): "Private Joker, I don't believe I heard you correctly!" Joker: "Sir, the Private said 'no, sir' sir!" Hartman: "Why, you little maggot! You make me want to vomit!" (Hartman backhands Private Joker) <a href="http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=4s9F7p3w9jQ" target="_blank">http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=...F7p3w9jQ</a> *Note..there's no cursing in this clip, it's LP community safe...as usual though, the comments section on YouTube may contain bad stuff, so don't read it if you want to keep the happy LP vibe intact
Originally Posted By dshyates <a href="http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/interviews/065" target="_blank">http://www.buzzflash.com/artic...iews/065</a> <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/10/AR2006121000883.html" target="_blank">http://www.washingtonpost.com/...883.html</a>
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 Thank you for the links to the (long) articles, dshyates. I hope people will take the time to read them. Weinstein points out that this is not just atheists' issue -- it is the issue of every soldier who is not a fundamentalist Christian. I love his term of "dominionist" Christians. It makes a nice distinction between Christians who would force their beliefs upon others and Christians who respect that others have differing beliefs. That's a distinction that is often lost (or deliberately blurred) here on LP.
Originally Posted By X-san ***Whenever he sees another fellowship member, he says, "I immediately feel like I am being held accountable, because we are the aroma of Jesus Christ."*** The guy lived in the desert thousands of years before indoor plumbing. That's an aroma I would NOT want to carry around!
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Is this why there are no atheists in foxholes? They get run out of the service?
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>So I guess whichever religion Dick Cheney belongs to should become the national religion. << That would be satanism, yes?
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn Remember, Christinity isn't something just to believe in - it is actual.
Originally Posted By gurgitoy2 "***Whenever he sees another fellowship member, he says, "I immediately feel like I am being held accountable, because we are the aroma of Jesus Christ."*** The guy lived in the desert thousands of years before indoor plumbing. That's an aroma I would NOT want to carry around! " I swear, I was going to say something like this! I saw that comment and was kind of grossed out by it. I'm sure it was not meant litterally, but you can't help but take it that way. "Remember, Christinity isn't something just to believe in - it is actual." But is it factual, or satisfactual? Some would say no.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<Remember, Christinity isn't something just to believe in - it is actual.>> Does that mean, then, that it's okay for the military to expect it soldiers to profess to Christianity?
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "It doesn't matter who says no" I'm curious. Do you believe in UFOs and life on other planets?
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn "I'm curious. Do you believe in UFOs and life on other planets?" I don't know. Do you believe in the Book of Ezekiel Chapter 1? Creatures that float? Floating objects shaped like a wheel inside of a wheel?
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn "Does that mean, then, that it's okay for the military to expect it soldiers to profess to Christianity?" My position is well known on that. Acknowledgement of Jesus Christ as our Lord causes the Constitution to continue to legally exist.
Originally Posted By X-san ***Acknowledgement of Jesus Christ as our Lord causes the Constitution to continue to legally exist.*** No, it doesn't. Your position is certainly well known, but also completely incorrect. ***Do you believe in the Book of Ezekiel Chapter 1?*** Creatures with four faces and four wings? No, I don't believe that. Sounds like it would work well in a Harry Potter book though.
