Originally Posted By Mr X ***A committee in the Oklahoma legislature voted to outlaw public schools from using state funds to offer Advanced Placement history courses on Tuesday, arguing that the coursework for AP U.S. History is unpatriotic*** ***AP coursework teaches “what is bad about America.”*** <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/oklahoma-gop-wants-outlaw-ap-us-history">http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/okl...-history</a> Just reminding you folks what we're up against. Discuss.
Originally Posted By Kusin_It Let me take a wild guess, these GOP orks don't want to address the slavery stain, dead Chinese in the mines, removing and spreading disease to Indians or invading other countries for oil and rubber tree plants.
Originally Posted By Kusin_It Let me take a wild guess, these GOP orks don't want to address the slavery stain, dead Chinese in the mines, removing and spreading disease to Indians or invading other countries for oil and rubber tree plants.
Originally Posted By fkurucz We used to mock the Soviets for whitewashing their history. Now we're doing it.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 We always sort of did, but mostly through omission. Now when some boards of ed are trying to remedy that and include some of the less admirable things (along with plenty of admirable), we get the "oh no, can't teach that, you American-haters" crowd.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck Who needs cold hard facts when you can settle for conservative propaganda. Whats next, demon identification 101, or rapture readiness?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip It is just a reflection of changing times and perceptions. Back before the Civil Rights era, Vietnam and Watergate there was generally a far more "Rah-Rah" view of America. That view was promoted by the media, books, TV, and our schools; and it was held by a large percentage of Americans. Then the turmoil of those years led to a much more negative view of America. There was a push (especially by liberals) to present a view of America without the rose-colored lenses. There was the feeling that we had to understand past mistakes to avoid making them again. Now fast forward to today. As in the late 60's and 70's, there is again a widespread sense of angst among Americans. Many see the country as being greatly diminished from what it once was. We have had a decade of an extremely difficult economy. Yes, the numbers show it to be improving but let's face it... it has primarily improved for those at the top. The average middle class person continues to struggle with low growth in wages and frequently a cutback in hours. America's position in the world seems greatly diminished. We have people from a dozen countries looking to bring death to Americans and there seems to be little we can do about it. Putin is intent on raising hell in the Ukraine and again there seems to be little we can do to stop him. So what is the reaction? This time it is push-back by the conservatives. They start to wonder if the self-circumspection of the decades since the 70's has led to an America that is afraid to be great. They feel we are so busy wallowing in our collective hair shirts that we are afraid to be the America we once were. So just like there was a radical shift in how events were perceived that was encouraged by liberals in the 70's; now the same thing is being pursued by conservatives. That doesn't make it right. But encouraging a shift in how we view ourselves is nothing new.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan So just like there was a radical shift in how events were perceived that was encouraged by liberals in the 70's; now the same thing is being pursued by conservatives.<< But this goes back to the Reagan era. A major part of the appeal of Reagan was that he was unabashedly patriotic, a throwback to a more innocent era of the 1950s. (Innocent, of course, being an entirely subjective interpretation of that era). I remember so many people back then who just loved that Reagan made them feel good about the country after the turmoil of Vietnam and Watergate. It's always appealing to reimagine our past and gloss over the ugly parts of it. Many Reaganites were quite happy to do that, and a majority of the country was obviously feeling the same way. Just this week, "America's Mayor" blathers on to a receptive audience about how Obama doesn't love America. For a segment of the population, any history of this country that doesn't look like a John Wayne movie just can't be accepted.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan For some of us, it's America's ability (at times, anyway) to take a hard look in the mirror and try to atone or at least acknowledge horrific things this country has done to its own people is one of its greatest strengths. I wish more people saw it that way, instead of simply seeing it as bashing the country for the sake of it.
Originally Posted By utahjosh I think it's important to focus on the good of the past, without forgetting the pains and mistakes. I prefer studying the good things Washington, Adams, Lincoln etc did and honor their legacies much more than digging up as much dirt on them as I can. Call me an optimist. I think we should be teaching the mistakes our country has made, but I think the focus should be on the good we've done. Walt Disney agreed: http://www.mouseplanet.com/mike/americana.htm
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I think we should be teaching the mistakes our country has made, but I think the focus should be on the good we've done.<< I think it's healthy to always re-examine our history. It's not about optimism vs. pessimism. It's about realism. Sometimes, really flawed, awful people can do some forward-thinking amazing things. Those flaws that interrupt the George Washington and the cherry tree sort of parables make these figures far more interesting and amazing to me, not less.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I think we should be teaching the mistakes our country has made, but I think the focus should be on the good we've done.<< I'm curious about how we'd go about that. It seems the outcome aim would be to paint a specific narrative rather than a warts and all full disclosure. As an adult, the more I find out about how we've treated immigrant groups and Native Americans, how so much of that omitted and was whitewashed through a very particular lens when I was a kid, it just makes me angrier about it. It compounds the wrong by adding a lie to it. I grew up learning about brave settlers and movies and series where Indians were mostly the bad guys, or at best sort of simple and ignorant, impediments to progress. It really wasn't until I was an adult that I starting understanding that there was so much more to the story, the hideous things that happened at California's missions, and more. And yet, folks like those in Oklahoma just want to go back to a happy, simple tale told primarily from the perspective of white people. That's not right.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I think we should be teaching the mistakes our country has made, but I think the focus should be on the good we've done.<< The problem with this, and the problem the people in Oklahoma have, is that it is a white male centric view of the past. It's easy to call the enslavement and abuse of millions of people a "mistake" when it's not a part of your heritage. But let's reverse it. What if we found out that Germany was whitewashing the Holocaust because they only wanted to focus on "the good?" Would Americans' response be the same? We see our history as mistakes and other nations' history as genocide. The American past is full of the slaughter of *millions* of peoples, including African slaves and American Indians. How is that passed off as a "mistake?" Why do we expect charity and understanding for our well-intentioned past when we do not extend it to other nations? This is our past. It's who we were as a people. It's not an anomaly. Slavery was part of our heritage for nearly 100 years. Indian removal and massacres for longer. These aren't just one-off events that you can say "oops" to. These were as American as mom, baseball, and apple pie. What on earth kind of children do we want to raise by ignoring that or calling it a "mistake?"
Originally Posted By ecdc I'd add, sins of omission quickly become sins of commission. How far is it from "Gee, we don't wanna focus too much on Thomas Jefferson's slaves or his relationship with Sally Hemmings," to "We don't like that Thomas Jefferson rejected the divinity of Christ, so let's just say he was a good Christian fellow!" George Washington and Thomas Jefferson were Virginians. They were southerners and slave owners, It was baked into their identity. We are, in essence, lying if we don't talk about it or we call their very livelihood a "mistake." And the whole "positive" thing seems ignorant of the fact that there were positive things in the past that we can also focus on. John Quincy Adams didn't have a great presidency, but he was about the greatest post-president we've ever had, choosing to serve out in the House of Representatives. Check it out, the guy was a genuine American hero. But which coin or bill is he on? Instead, we get Andrew Jackson, one of the worst presidents we've ever had. Part of re-examining our past is recognizing that some of the "positive" things we've celebrated maybe weren't so positive after all.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip We must own up to our past, and admit the horrendous things we have tolerated. But on the other hand, what country hasn't done similar things during that period of time? I don't think we ever want to dismiss the wonderful things that America has done, and that much of the world is better off today because of our efforts. I won't get all flag-waving and say we are the best country, but we are the equal of any. It is about time that we were once again proud of who we are.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Mexicans who come to America are proud of their heritage and they SHOULD BE. Anyone should be proud of their heritage. It is about time to take off the hair shirts. America wasn't perfect but no was anyone else. Get over it.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>America wasn't perfect but no was anyone else. Get over it.<< The straw man is down for the count! Let us know when you respond to something someone actually said.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 < I don't think we ever want to dismiss the wonderful things that America has done> Well, that's good, because neither does the history course we're talking about. It just doesn't omit the bad parts, like the critics want it to.
