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Originally Posted By ecdc >>How much can the opportunity to yell "show us your tits" in public be worth?<< If you have to ask, then you clearly don't understand. Ok, seriously. We see these percentages and we're outraged - as we should be anytime a murder takes place. But again, where's the context? How many murders have taken place vs. the total population? If a million people live there, and 1,000 murders took place, that's .1% (significantly higher than most urban areas, I'd guess) of the population. I'm not saying murder isn't appalling and I'm not saying New Orleans is a pretty horrible place right now. I'm just wondering what the context is before we say it and its residents are so worthless they need to sink into the ocean. I'm reading a book right now and at one point it talks about just how rare murder is in our society. An infinitesimal number of us commit murder. Yet we talk about it with remarkable frequency, we see it portrayed regularly on our television screens and its covered widely by our news media. We ask each other, "Did you see that news story about so and so? Isn't that awful!" This is understandable; given its horrific and shocking nature, we're drawn to it. We have what Joseph Conrad called "the fascination with the abomination." But it's also led us to believe that we're perhaps likely victims ourselves. We lock our doors at night, pay for expensive security alarms, and even buy guns to protect ourselves. Yet most crime in most places has remained pretty steady for the last 50 years or so when you take population growth into account. What's really increased is media coverage of crime - by some 500% according to some accounts. It's made us all paranoid, and it's made us all a little blood thirsty IMO. Whenever we see or hear about a crime, we want the perpetrator to get what's coming to them. We want our comeuppance and we want it badly.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<I'm not saying murder isn't appalling and I'm not saying New Orleans is a pretty horrible place right now. I'm just wondering what the context is before we say it and its residents are so worthless they need to sink into the ocean.>> What is the context? Does comparison to every other city in the United States mean anything? Does the New Orleans murder rate being 30% HIGHER than any other city in the United States mean anything? <<"We have a culture, a certain population in this city with an intent on committing violent crime," says Assistant Superintendent of Police Steven Nicholas. "They feel no repercussion, they have no fear of police." New Orleans' murder rate is 30 percent higher than any other city in the country. >> Complete story: <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16490563/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16 490563/</a>
Originally Posted By RoadTrip ^^^ By the way... I'm a fairly good Democrat. I'm usually pretty willing to throw tax dollars at problems. But I DO EXPECT that those dollars accomplish something. The dollars we've thrown at Social Security have accomplished a lot. So have the dollars we’ve thrown at Medicare and Medicaid. Many of the good Democrat programs we've thrown money at have been very successful. But then many also have not. If Democrats are to be taken seriously by the rest of the Country; we need to look at the results of the money we toss out and see if it is meeting expectations. If it is not, we should stop chucking money down a rat hole. To continue doing so just makes us look dumb. New Orleans is ONE BIG rathole.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom You mean the three generations of welfare recipiants and all the looting after Hurriacne Katrina wasn't an indication as to just exactly "who" the citizenty of New Orleans is comprised of. How about the fact that New Orleans has charged and is convicting some of its own police officers for murder when they are trying to defend themselves and protect the good honest people of New Orleans against armed bandits during Hurricane Katrina. I certainly don't expect much from the likes of "certain members of the Democratic Patry" to step up to the plate. Since the Democtatic Party Presidental front runner and her motorcade ran down a NY Police Officer who was only doing his job to protect an airport.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom And is this any different from a certain San Fransico City Counsel Member using his polital position to encourge illegal Mexican "mobs" to protest a radio talk show host when that radio talk show host says something on the air they don't want to hear. Gosh, where did it all start? I guess it all depends on what your defination of "is" is <sarcasm>.
Originally Posted By jonvn It all starts with people not being able to figure out what is right and wrong, and what is good for them or bad for them. Mush headed people. On the left, you have people like Chris Daly in SF who is a left wing retard. The streets of his district are covered in filth and human waste, filled with homeless and is ghastly. What does he do? He proposes that the Blue Angels no longer do a show over the city. This is his big contribution. He has so marginalized himself on the SF Board of Supervisors that nothing he says or does now really gets any support. Then you have people voting for right wing extremists and other Republicans because darn it, they're going to stop flag burning, gay marriage, and San Francisco Values. You get the government you deserve. I'm surprised, though that New Orleans has such a high murder rate, 30% higher than any other city? That's pretty significant. There is just a lot of poverty and crime there. You can't forget what state New Orleans is in. And Louisiana is not exactly known for its competent government. It has a long history of bad stuff going on.
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom <<There is just a lot of poverty and crime there.>> And three generations of welfare recipients. << You can't forget what state New Orleans is in. >> Yes, its amazing what a 4 Billion dollar cash infusion can get you isn't it <sarcasm> <<And Louisiana is not exactly known for its competent government. It has a long history of bad stuff going on.>> You mean like when a Louisiana Senator is cought with $60,000 in bribe money in his freezer and the Democrats hard ball President Bush to "squelch" the arrest charges for a year and allow said Senator to remain in office and continue to vote? Meanwhile, said Senator is reelected?
Originally Posted By jonvn "And three generations of welfare recipients." Welfare breeds crime and keeps people in poverty. People aren't stupid, and if they see that they can get money for nothing, they are going to work it to do that as best they can. I've seen this personally here in CA. People just working the system. The thing is that for most of the people on assistance, if you cut it off, what are they going to do? There's no jobs for them. It hooks in a bit with illegal immigration, in that we have illegal immigrants coming over, and doing jobs these people should be doing, and be getting paid a wage so that they can live on it. "You mean like when a Louisiana Senator is cought with $60,000 in bribe money in his freezer" It has nothing to do with democrats or republicans. Louisiana is simply messed up. The home of David Duke, Huey Long, and William Jefferson, who had $90,000 in his home, not $60,000. I think it is the heat and living in the swamp.
Originally Posted By Mrs ElderP I agree that from this far away vantage point N.O. seems to have a nearly unresolvable culture of greed, entitlement and corupution. I can only hope for their sakes that they A) get strong leaders and B) are willing to re-elect those leaders. N.O. (sorry tourist board) has never been on my list of "must visit spots" I don't drink alcohol, I don't look forward to hanging our with sloppy drunks, I have no desire to sleep around, and I'm not a jazz afficianado (and the last one is the only one that I feel is truely my loss). For me, I don't see the apeal. I would add that N.O. is not exactly the only place in the US with a culture of poverty (Much of rural Mississippi, South Central Los Angeles, Newark, the Ozarks, and so on) and yet signifigantly worse than any of these other places? That's saying something!
Originally Posted By Mrs ElderP P.S. Jovn, it's at a time like this when you need a little Pixie Glitter in your life! (Or so I've heard)
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder When that town re-elected the completely incompetent Ray Nagin I wrote it off. Smart residents should be moving away.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Not to interrupt the bashing of New Orleans, but Kennesaw Tom, you referenced Michael Savage earlier. Don't believe everything your radio tells you. <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/08/15/BA08RIFSU.DTL" target="_blank">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/ article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/08/15/BA08RIFSU.DTL</a>
Originally Posted By barboy "William Jefferson, who had $90,000 in his home, not $60,000." What's so wrong with having some cash around the house even if it is 90K? I still have 52--54K in my garage and I haven't run gambling rings, sold drugs or taken bribes. (I guess that I am still hung over from when I had a small "bank run" back during the "Y2k" scare of late '99 and I have been too lazy to deposit it)
Originally Posted By Kennesaw Tom I have been to New Orleans and I thought it was an incredible place. Just because "vices" were rampant in that city doesn't mean that everyone visited it for that reason. Personlly, I liked the climate, the atmosphere, food, museums and culture. New Orleans has a lot going for it. Unfortunately, the city itself is being held hostage by a every demanding populus bent on entitlement programs. New Orleans isn't going to be fixed until that city establishes a rule of law. Something the mayor, nor most of the population wants. Charging Police with murder when they are trying to protect themselves and honest law abiding people doesn't inspire much faith. Concerning Michael Savage, I think this statement by the San Fransico City Counselman sums it all up: <<But it must be said that Savage made his comments on July 5. Why is it only now that the microphone was set up on the steps of City Hall? "It takes a little while to organize the community," Sandoval said. "This is the beginning of what I hope will be a firestorm of protest.">> Sounds like someone using their political position of power to elicit mob rule to me. Oh course Sandavol went further than that is what he said, hense the reason why Savage is sueing Sandavol.
Originally Posted By ecdc I wondered how long it would take for the "KT New Orleans Bashfest" to show up. I know I'm shocked that the latest of those that come from three generations of welfare haven't graduated from Brown and aren't pulling in six figures yet. Just shocked. I've posted before on the context of American poverty and the nearly impossible obstacles that poor Americans face. Bt it always goes ignored because people don't want the facts to get in the way of their anger and disgust. It's much easier to push complexity aside and believe that there's lazy, swarthy people out there who are just good fer nuthin' ne'er do wells. How dare they be poor and collect welfare! If they had any decency, they'd just starve to death like poor people are supposed to. It's exactly like I said in another thread. It's a fundamental inability to see the world through anything but your own perspective. Apparently NO welfare recipients are supposed to go on their PCs, fire up the Comcast connection, and do research on preparing a resume, then type it up on MS Word and print it off. Then they hop in the car (because they have one, of course ) and go to a job interview in their sunday best from Nordstroms. The kids are at day care, because we all know how cheap that is. Yup, that's what *I'd* do, so anyone who doesn't do what I'd do has no excuse. If we have this much animosity towards our fellow humans, we have no right to call ourselves Christians in this country. Of course, the vast, vast majority of New Orleans residents have never committed any crimes. But don't let that get in the way of satisfying your outrage.
Originally Posted By jonvn If you don't call yourself a christian, is it ok to be as cold hearted as you want?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>If you don't call yourself a christian, is it ok to be as cold hearted as you want?<< I should've left that statement out of my little rant, and I apologize to all for its heated tone. I guess I'm just at an absolute loss. There have been many threads on New Orleans on these boards since Katrina. And it seems like, with the exception of myself and Dabob and perhaps a few others, the overall response has been "let the city burn! They deserve it!" People who are, in most other topics, intelligent and thoughtful suddenly let their emotions over the tragedy of murders and crime in NO dictate their comments. There is so much more to poverty in America than just laziness. We have failed these people just as much as they have failed themselves. I learned this as a missionary in upstate New York. I was in inner-city Albany, a surprisingly poor, crime-ridden area. I see the lower ninth ward and it reminds me of where I lived and worked for 9 months. It was the first time in my life I'd ever been exposed to anything like this. Most of the people I met were decent people who wanted a better life, they just had no idea how to get it. Hence, Kennesaw Tom's comments about three-generations of welfare really got to me for its ignorance. That's the situation of those I got to know and love as a missionary. No one ever taught them the importance of going to school and getting good grades. No one ever taught them how to get a job. The things we all learned in elementary school and throughout growing up, that are second-nature to us, they never learned. They didn't know how to drive, they didn't have a bank account, etc. Many had barely better than an elementary school education. Their parents were the same way. One couple that we knew quite well had their power shut off for two weeks. They had no money to get it turned back on until their welfare check came. Whose fault was it? It was theirs and only theirs. They had no money management skills at all. They could barely do addition and subtraction to figure out how much money they had left. We don't talk about those kind of people in this country. It's like they don't exist. Our television shows, our movies, our advertisements, our products, etc. Almost none of it addresses their very existence. Yet as soon as they get so desperate that they finally do something really stupid and commit a crime, then we notice. And we're outraged. We holler and yell and call for justice (and those who commit crimes should be locked away; those who commit murder should be sent away forever). And in those few moments we even acknowledge their existence, we treat them with utter contempt for their laziness, for their stupidity, for their sense of entitlement. We do this even though we cannot possibly comprehend what it means to be them and live the sad, meaningless lives they do. We are supposed to be better than that.
