Originally Posted By Darkbeer <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/11/18/BAGLFFQENB1.DTL" target="_blank">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/ article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/11/18/BAGLFFQENB1.DTL</a> >>A Contra Costa County school was educating seventh-graders about Islam, not indoctrinating them, in role-playing sessions in which students used Muslim names and recited language from prayers, a federal appeals court ruled Thursday. The Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals rejected a lawsuit by two Christian students and their parents, who accused the Byron Union School District of unconstitutionally endorsing a religious practice. "The Islam program activities were not overt religious exercises that raise Establishment Clause concerns,'' the three-judge panel said, referring to the First Amendment ban on government sanctioning a religion. During the history course at Excelsior School in the fall of 2001, the teacher, using an instructional guide, told the students they would adopt roles as Muslims for three weeks to help them learn what Muslims believe. She encouraged them to use Muslim names, recited prayers in class and made them give up something for a day, such as television or candy, to simulate fasting during Ramadan. The final exam asked students for a critique of elements of Muslim culture. U.S. District Judge Phyllis Hamilton ruled in favor of the school district in 2003, saying that the class had an instructional purpose and that students had engaged in no actual religious exercises. The appeals court upheld her ruling Thursday in a three-paragraph decision that was not published as a precedent for future cases, which generally is an indication that the court considers the legal issue to be clear from past rulings. << >>Edward White of the Thomas More Center, the attorney in the case for the two children and their parents, said he will ask the full appeals court for a rehearing. He said the panel failed to address his argument that the district violated parents' rights. "What happened in this classroom was clearly an endorsement of religion and indoctrination of children in the Islamic religion, which would never have stood if it were a class on Christianity or Judaism,'' White said. << Here is a link to the actual curriculum <a href="http://michellemalkin.com/archives/files/islamlesson2.pdf" target="_blank">http://michellemalkin.com/arch ives/files/islamlesson2.pdf</a>
Originally Posted By cmpaley Well, as long as they have a few weeks where kids learn about the Holy Catholic Church, what the Church REALLY teaches (so many don't really know) , learn about Mary and the saints, learn about rosaries, the Mass, do a Lenten fast and the like, I'm cool with it.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer What the article describes isn't pushing a religion. God forbid we try to understand each other.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Did you read the Curriculum... Saying Prayers, mentioning God many times... But heaven forbid if you even metion on Christmas Carol, or the word God in relationship to Christianity or Judaism... Double Standard anyone....
Originally Posted By TomSawyer If they are doing those things as part of a class on the subject of Islam, then it isn't promoting a religion. If they start of the school day with a prayer that ISN'T part of a particular study topic, then they are pushing religion. If they want to spend a month in cmpaley's Catholicism class, that's fine by me. They aren't promoting the religion any more than having the kids wear Pilgrim hats on the day before Thanksgiving is promoting puritanism or native genocide. I think you're trying to find reasons to be outraged.
Originally Posted By cmpaley >>I think you're trying to find reasons to be outraged.<< The Right tends to do so with great alacrity.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip I tend to agree with the final statement in the quote: <<"What happened in this classroom was clearly an endorsement of religion and indoctrination of children in the Islamic religion, which would never have stood if it were a class on Christianity or Judaism,'' White said.>> Now I'm not about to say that it was endorsement of a religion or the indoctrination of children in the Muslim religion. But if the religion involved had been Christianity it would have gotten a helluva lot more scrutiny and probably be found in violation of the law. The interests of the majority groups in this country are not nearly as well protected as the interests of minority groups. Now I'm not saying this is necessarily bad. The interests of the majority don't NEED the same level of protection since they are the dominant interests. But to claim that all are treated equally is not consistent with reality.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder Without knowing more, I think I'll withhold an opinion on this. From what little is available I'd say it is much too soon to get worked up.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> "What happened in this classroom was clearly an endorsement of religion and indoctrination of children in the Islamic religion, << Does anyone "really" believe that the intention of this public school was to 'endorse' islam, or to 'indoctrinate' the kids into the muslim faith? Of course not. The intent was almost certainly to educate them about differing cultures and beliefs, and to try and instill some respect for people with different beliefs.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer So why can't we talk about Christianity and its celebrations, such as Christmas and what it means to Christians (more than just a day to give gifts to others). Or talking about the Lord's Prayer and the 10 commandments... The 9th circuit's ruling makes it look like (IMHO) that Islam is getting preferential treatment over Judaism and Christianity...
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> So why can't we talk about Christianity and its celebrations << There is a concerted effort on the part of the christian right to "endorse and indoctrinate" their personal brand of faith within the public schools. They go to court regularly to fight for school prayer, bible study, creationism, ten commandments, morality - anything and everything that's related to christianity and their beliefs. It is an "agenda" with a clear intent. This is not comparable to 'social studies' in which the cultures and beliefs of other societies are examined.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Give me a break, there is a concerted effort to REMOVE Christianity and Judaism from the classroom, as it is folks like the ACLU who are filing the lawsuits...
Originally Posted By Shooba And since there has been such a >>concerted effort on the part of the christian right to "endorse and indoctrinate" their personal brand of faith within the public schools<< it would be almost impossible to mention Christianity in the classroom and view it as mere social studies. Christians have pushed too hard to impose their so-called morals on others, leaving groups with seemingly no choice other than to oppose any mention of the religion in schools. Christians have brought this response on themselves.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> Give me a break, there is a concerted effort to REMOVE Christianity and Judaism from the classroom << Christianity SHOULD be removed from the classroom. As we all know, public schools are supported with taxpayer dollars, and that comes from a completely diverse set of faiths and beliefs. Why would anyone expect people of a different faith to financially support the teaching of christianity?
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "Give me a break, there is a concerted effort to REMOVE Christianity and Judaism from the classroom, as it is folks like the ACLU who are filing the lawsuits..." See post 13. Christians aren't content with the religion merely being studied, they want it endorsed, indoctrinated and mandatory. There's a big difference. And it is typical of them (or you) to claim that there is a "concerted effort" to get it removed. Go back to the thread on the RA in Minnesota and his study group. Learn more about what you're saying. read the entire story instead of what you just cut and paste.
Originally Posted By cmpaley Once again, if the Christian module dealt with teaching about Christianity (in all its various forms) with emphasis on the major players (i.e., Catholics and major Protestant sects), then it wouldn't be a problem. On the other hand, if it were teaching, as in catechizing, the Faith, that would be another thing. As a prospective Catholic, I would NOT want my children to be taught protestantism in school. On the other hand, I wouldn't mind them being taught ABOUT protestantism. I wonder if the Right understands the difference.
Originally Posted By basas <<I wonder if the Right understands the difference.>> Clearly most of the responders don't. I find it ridiculous and can be fairly certain had this been another religion there would have been immediate actions and changes to stop it at once. But because it’s Islam…it’s somehow “OKâ€â€¦typical.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "Clearly most of the responders don't. I find it ridiculous and can be fairly certain had this been another religion there would have been immediate actions and changes to stop it at once. But because it’s Islam…it’s somehow “OKâ€â€¦typical." Ahhh, another first amendment "expert".
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan When I was in high school, I had a very innovative American studies teacher who taught a unit on the subject of death. Students wanting to participate were required to get parental approval via a form. We visited a funeral home, complete with cadaver in view, to learn about the processes they use to prepare a body for viewing. We had a doctor visit our class and explain physically what happens during the dying process. And believe it or not, we had a panel of folks representing various religions (an assortment of Christian faiths, Buddhism, Muslim, Hindu, even an Athiest). I imagine a teacher would get run out of town for such a class now, 25 years later. Any teaching of world history will naturally include the subject of Christianity, Islam and many other faiths. And if a student could be wooed to become Islamic based on the drab material in the PDF file provided, that kid is desperately searching for something anyway.
