Originally Posted By Elderp <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10454316/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10 454316/</a>
Originally Posted By gadzuux It's startling to me just how easily many americans offer up their own civil rights for the taking.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer The are spying on Americans because liberals don't have any ideas and that's why they can't win any elections.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper If someone wants spend the time and energy to spy on me...have at it. I have to be one of the most boring people around. But, to the point. Yes, I am willing to sacrifice some liberties if it means a larger degree of protection for us all. I already do. I pass metal detectors at airports. I have background checks when I apply for new jobs, drug tests, etc.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer According to Rumsfeld, sometimes you have to go to war with the country you have instead of the country you want.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin Of course, in this case, people were not willingly giving up their liberties - it's the military spying on us. But wait for it - the usual suspects will be here telling us why this isn't so bad; if we're not doing anything bad, there's nothing to worry about, yada yada yada. Note to usual suspects: it's not only disturbing, it's probably counterproductive. From the link: "Some Pentagon observers worry that in the effort to thwart the next 9/11, the U.S. military is now collecting too much data, both undermining its own analysis efforts by forcing analysts to wade through a mountain of rubble in order to obtain potentially key nuggets of intelligence and entangling U.S. citizens in the U.S. military’s expanding and quiet collection of domestic threat data."
Originally Posted By itsme When they decide that the first thing to protect this nation should include protecting the borders, let me know. Otherwise its all a bunch of smoke about whats really necessary.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper If Terry McVeigh had been spied on I wonder if the Oklahoma City bombing could have been avoided. I guess I should be allowed to yell FIRE in a public place because, you know, we have freedom of speech.
Originally Posted By Elderp <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10467408/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10 467408/</a>
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Non-sequitur. The "fire" exception has been long established and everyone accepts it. Why in the world would you spy on Quakers, of all people? And again, if you spy on too many people, you just muddy the waters and make the real bad guys easier to miss.
Originally Posted By ElKay "If Terry McVeigh had been spied on I wonder if the Oklahoma City bombing could have been avoided." That's the problem, VcVeigh back then or most likely even today wouldn't be on the profile of those being spied upon by the Pentagon. He was a White, ex-military, Christian and from the mid-West. The profile of today's terror suspect has to be Semitic, non-military, Muslim from overseas or at least anyone who didn't vote for Bush and is a critic of military recruiting. Recall after Oklahoma City, EVERYONE assumed that it was Arab terrorists that did it. I though that assumption was pure B.S., because what foreigner would even be able to find Okalhoma City on a map (I'll even wager public school kids would have trouble too), so it have to be someone local to that area, narrowing down the suspects by a factor of 10,000. If memory serves, apologist's for McVeigh, still maintain that the phamtom 3rd suspect was a man with dark, curly hair and swarthy complexion--stereotyping doesn't die easily, does it?
Originally Posted By cmpaley Of course, a better question would by WHY would a fer'ner want to go to a place like Oklahoma City? I don't even want to go to a place like that.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> Because some of us can't be trusted? << Starting with our own government. There's really no reason to believe anything they say.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper gadzuux...I wouldn't disagree with you...no matter who is in office.
Originally Posted By itsme >>Starting with our own government ---- Saw a great bumper sticker yesterday- The goverment can fix anything, If it aint broke they fix it till it is.
Originally Posted By Elderp The patriot act has failed for renewal. No more wiretaps, domestic spy lists, and open records search. Dec. 31 is the final day. <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10485860/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10 485860/</a>
