Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I have read several posts from people unhappy with the president's stimulus bill. Rather than debate item by item, I am curious to hear from conservatives what their solution to the fiscal crisis we're in would be. Let things alone and it'll all sort itself out? Or some form of government action to spark the economic engine to life? Or some other solution? Times like these call for creative solutions, and no one side has the monopoly on creativity. So let's hear it!
Originally Posted By mawnck Crickets. "I'm no fool, nosirree ...." (See? See what I did there? That song was sung by a cricket! A DISNEY cricket, and this is a Disney board! Bwahahahahahahaaaa! Just a little joke. Real little. About that big.)
Originally Posted By utahjosh <I have read several posts from people unhappy with the president's stimulus bill. Rather than debate item by item, I am curious to hear from conservatives what their solution to the fiscal crisis we're in would be.> I honestly don't know. But if the Stimulus deal is the only offer out there, it is open for criticism on the lengths to which it goes.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "But if the Stimulus deal is the only offer out there, it is open for criticism on the lengths to which it goes." If it's the only thing out there, and you have nothing else to offer, how can you criticize it? "I don't like it but I don't know what else to do" helps nothing.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 How about - it's the best anyone can come up with- but loading it with crap pork is wrong ! Period - end of story. I like the fact that they got moderate DEms and Moderate GOP's groups to sit down together and go over -- there has to be more common ground than " it's all or nothing" - my way or the highway - or "we'll find a way to shove it thru regardless" we don't need no stinkin" checks and balances. I agree it is the Dem turn to try their solutions - but to assume they should go absolutely unchecked - no. Again, all this hatred toward the GOP- yet why aren't we being told which Dems put BS in the stimulus package ? Why isn't there any outrage there ? I am not a world economist - nor do I play one on TV -- we have so called experts in that field- unfortunately few of them are elected officials who only see $$ signs for themselves and their 'empires' to ask someone here to draw up an all conmclusive package to fix this economy is at best - disengenuous.... my take is this is the best way - yet we need to make sure we're not lining the pockets of people who are are trustworthy as the CEO's we all like to rip on ( and rightfully so)... Let's not totally sell our kids futures out either.
Originally Posted By utahjosh <If it's the only thing out there, and you have nothing else to offer, how can you criticize it? "I don't like it but I don't know what else to do" helps nothing.> Why not? There are billions in this proposal - we can't talk about taking out a few million here and there?
Originally Posted By utahjosh A fable: SPP is very hungry. I'm going to bake him a Lasagna. It will solve the hunger problem, and nobody has come up with a better solution. In fact, I've been wanting to get rid of some of this kitty litter over hear, and I"m going to add it to the Lasagna. Hope you don't mind. After all, the Lasagna is the only offer on the table to solve your hunger problem. Why complain about the kitty litter?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip So where's the pork? Spending is spending, and it all serves to stimulate the economy. Whether we are improving levees in New Orleans or developing biofuels in Iowa, it all creates jobs and stimulates the economy. What's the problem?
Originally Posted By alexbook >>So where's the pork?<< It seems that "pork" is another term for any Federal spending directed to somebody else's state.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 anything request for money that cannot provide a business case as to why we should give them the money is pork until proven otherwise. not everything we throw money at will create jobs also if we're throwing money at companies off shoring jobs faster than the speed of light - I have an issue with that create a few more obs here and they will lighten the overhead by even more to fit them in
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>to ask someone here to draw up an all conmclusive package to fix this economy is at best - disengenuous....<< Excuse me, it wasn't disingenuous at all. I am seriously asking not for a total 1,000 page proposal obviously, just what sort of basic theories or overall guidelines conservatives here would include in this bill, or if they think zero federal dollars should be spent in an effort to reignite the economy. I mean, it's easy to pick and choose which items one sees as pork, and one person's pork is another person's infrastructure. So, I am looking for the conservative solution -- is it do nothing and let the economy fix itself? Because if that's the case, it is a waste of time to quibble over details if one is entirely against any federal spending for this. THAT's disingenuous -- to pretend one would be okay with a bill "if only"... when in reality the intention is simply to block any and all bills any way possible. If perhaps someone thinks tax cuts are the magic bullet then I'd like to know how they see that as the solution. The thread isn't designed to be a trap, I seriously am interested.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "Again, all this hatred toward the GOP- yet why aren't we being told which Dems put BS in the stimulus package ? Why isn't there any outrage there ?" Well I think that referring to it as BS is part of the problem. Is it truly BS or is the squabbling simply more partisanship from both sides? Obviously Dems and Repubs are going to be at odds on some issues, but I don't think offering money to help rebuild America's schools is pork. Apparently some conservatives do though.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Spending is spending, and it all serves to stimulate the economy. Whether we are improving levees in New Orleans or developing biofuels in Iowa, it all creates jobs and stimulates the economy. What's the problem?<< $900,000,000,000 closer to the market for American government securities collapsing. That's what the problem is. Government Ponzi schemes also can't go on forever.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <"Again, all this hatred toward the GOP- yet why aren't we being told which Dems put BS in the stimulus package ? Why isn't there any outrage there ?" Well I think that referring to it as BS is part of the problem. Is it truly BS or is the squabbling simply more partisanship from both sides? Obviously Dems and Repubs are going to be at odds on some issues, but I don't think offering money to help rebuild America's schools is pork. Apparently some conservatives do though.< nice twist of the words - but no one else is going to call school funds prok GOP - green party or anyone else- but to seem to ignore the fact there's pork in there-- in fact the president already had some removed - was that not pork also ? SHould those people be reprimanded -? why not ?
Originally Posted By vbdad55 and how do others add another $112M today when they know it is already having issues passing - but of course- it's ALL those damn GOPers fault. tiring - really. for the GOPers pushing to try and make the bill all tax cuts- same thing- tiring...that ship has sailed.
Originally Posted By utahjosh The topic/question is at hand really flawed. I don't think anyone here can come up with a "better plan" to save our economy. But to claim that the plan "as-is" can't be criticized is ridiculous.
Originally Posted By DAR <<Rather than debate item by item, I am curious to hear from conservatives what their solution to the fiscal crisis we're in would be.>> Well first thing I would do is take out anything that applies to social engineering. Do we really need to spend 400 million for safe sex prevention? How is that going to create jobs? Here I'll save us money: "Bag it before you tag it." Something like that can be valid but it has to wait. Anything that has to do with fixing roads should stay in. Anything that can be used to improve our schools should stay in. These are vital and important items. All that other crap can wait.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>But to claim that the plan "as-is" can't be criticized is ridiculous.<< Good thing no one said that. >>I don't think anyone here can come up with a "better plan" to save our economy.<< Okay, how about a list of general principles that could be applied to judging the stimulus package.
