Originally Posted By Mr X I have no dog in this fight. I don't live in my home country anymore, and probably never will. But the situation saddens me and I feel as though it's only going to get worse. Seeing such unrest in the face of an increasingly militarised police force, I hardly even recognise my home anymore. If anything, it reminds me of scenes from Iran or something, or perhaps some third-world nightmare. What's the solution?
Originally Posted By utahjosh It's very sad. And I have a hard time not putting the majority of the blame on the people breaking the law.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer The solution is to take the TARDIS back to 1570 and to have England, Spain, and France make it illegal to use slave labor of any kind in the Americas.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>What's the solution?<< There's no easy answer, but I think to start it's to recognize that the riots are not the cause of violence in Baltimore, but the response to it. To call for nonviolence now after blacks have been victims of violence at the hands of police in the city is pretty rich. As one commenter said, "When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse." These riots are an angry response to decades of injustice, and when the explosion happens, people wonder where the rage comes from. When African Americans use marijuana at the same rate as whites, but are four times more likely to be arrested and jailed for it, that's where the rage comes from. We have years of data on this: policing in the United States is deeply, deeply racist. Black people know it; it's the whites who are clueless.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>And I have a hard time not putting the majority of the blame on the people breaking the law.<< The problem with that though is people like you and I were raised to believe that the law is fair and equitable. I used to think it was. But that was my naievete. It is not. Look, I want to be clear: violence and riots are not acceptable. But in this case, it's like if a kid at school gets bullied day in and day out, tormented and teased and pushed around and hit and punched for months and years on end, then one day he snaps and starts screaming in the middle of class and throwing chairs, the teachers and everyone else go, "Whoa, bro, what's *your* problem?"
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Look, I want to be clear: violence and riots are not acceptable. But in this case, it's like if a kid at school gets bullied day in and day out, tormented and teased and pushed around and hit and punched for months and years on end, then one day he snaps and starts screaming in the middle of class and throwing chairs, the teachers and everyone else go, "Whoa, bro, what's *your* problem?"<< I agree with this. I think one big step is that police departments must start cracking down, hard, on cops who are loose cannons. These are not officers who one day just snap. The worst violators are known to all and are enabled with the whole "brothers in blue" mentality. And when a cop crosses the line, they must be disciplined very early, stop with the looking the other way. I still believe that most cops are good people doing a fairly thankless, miserable job. But there are some terrible thugs amongst them that have to be weeded out.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip It goes beyond that. There is an acceptance of violence in the United States combined with a mentality that riots are an acceptable, and for some, enjoyable response to a given situation. What type of longstanding grievances and suppressed rage were the white kids in Lexington, KY expressing when they reacted to the loss of the big game by rioting in the streets? Look at the ages of those causing the problem. In both cases, regardless of color, they are a bunch of damned stupid young punks using the situation to go out and "party".
Originally Posted By Tikiduck Peaceful protests are fine, but they don't get the attention that riots do. I think we are seeing a trend that is only going to intensify with every high profile incident. Weather this has an impact for the good or bad remains to be seen. But you have to admit, the message is being sent, loud and clear.
Originally Posted By trekkeruss "When African Americans use marijuana at the same rate as whites, but are four times more likely to be arrested and jailed for it, that's where the rage comes from." This begs the question, why is that? Blacks are not the only minority in America.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>This begs the question, why is that? Blacks are not the only minority in America.<< Racism and a long history of white supremacy.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer "This begs the question, why is that? Blacks are not the only minority in America." They were the only minority that was brought here in chains by people who thought that they were not fully human and who looked at them as property. They are the only minority specifically called out in the documents of secession of the various Confederate states, for whom the idea that blacks might be given the slightest measure of equality was so offensive that they chose to send their boys to war. Slavery is the zero-day flaw, our national birth defect. Slavery was our thalidomide. It was the cause of major stress between the north and south, the driver of sectarian strife and countless deaths. And even today its lingering effects on our national psyche drive politics and economics. How do you solve it? I don't know that you can. It's part of our national DNA.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip You can deal with immediate problem if you approach it correctly. Ferguson discovered that after a couple of nights of very ineffective and at times provocative police response. Bring in the State Patrol and National Guard to direct and control the response. If nothing else it reduces the animosity that has grown over time between the residents and the local police. Set up tight regulations on when and where people can protest, and then back that up with a sufficient number of people to enforce those regulations if/when they are violated. Significant numbers of people still peacefully protested following the rules, and those who did not were greatly reduced in number and swiftly dealt with. Within a night or two the burning and looting had ended. Then follow that up with Federal investigation of the local police department and court system. In Ferguson that resulted in the resignation or dismissal of more than a few high ranking people.
Originally Posted By ecdc Well this is perfect. <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdSsBYO1oNI">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...sBYO1oNI</a>
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Which goes back to my original post about how much of the violence is committed by stupid young punks who engage in rioting just for the hell of it. What excuse did the stupid young white punks in Lexington have for doing what they did? The problem I see is that the very real concerns and outrage of the people who responsibly protest get minimized by a bunch of young thugs who are just looking for an excuse to trash stuff. Ninety percent of the people at the protests have very real grievances that must be addressed. Sadly, those doing the violence really don't give a shit... they are just looking for an excuse to raise a little mayhem. Just like when your local team loses the NCAA final. I feel the media exacerbates the problem by trying to give the young thugs an excuse for doing what they are doing. There is none. Plenty of reason to be outraged... no reason to riot.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder I'd like to know how it makes sense to destroy the every community you live in and then say it's a response to police brutality.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder "Plenty of reason to be outraged... no reason to riot." This.
Originally Posted By utahjosh Ben Carson had a few good things to say about this. <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://time.com/3838868/ben-carson-baltimore-riots/">http://time.com/3838868/ben-ca...e-riots/</a> "When rioting and looting occurs in instances like this, I cannot help but think how important it is to get police involved early on in the community so that the first encounter a young person has with a police officer is not a hostile encounter. That is the type of thing that will make a huge difference in this country. The police have to acknowledge any shortcomings, and if there is unfairness, we need to look at it and improve upon that. Objectivity is the real answer. In order to get there, we have to be able to sit down at a table and have an intelligent conversation rather than getting to our respective corners and demonizing each other. We need to create relationships. Relationships are key to resolutions of problems."
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Just saying, the solution I mentioned in #12 appears to have worked pretty well tonight. Apparently some folks did learn something from Ferguson. No guarantees for tomorrow, but I am hopeful. <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/baltimore-unrest/wary-peace-descends-baltimore-curfew-approaches-n350071">http://www.nbcnews.com/storyli...-n350071</a>
Originally Posted By fkurucz It's only going to get worse. When it was Ferguson a lot of people shrugged saying to themselves "well, it happened where THEY live" Now it's happened in a "real" city. People continue to shrug, telling themselves "It can't happen here. We're not like Baltimore" Until it does. Summer is coming and the cops are still trigger happy. This year could be "interesting".
Originally Posted By RoadTrip It's not all policing either. There are so many factors that contribute to situations like this, and of course all the networks grab on to is the reason du jour. I would say the situation is far more complicated, with a major factor in the overall poverty of the area having been created by one of America's greatest inner-city redevelopment "success stories"... the Inner Harbor development. This report was written long before the current crisis, but very clearly shows the problems behind it. The Mondawmin neighborhood is only 4 miles from the Inner Harbor. <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://castlecoalition.org/images/publications/perspectivesbaltimore.pdf">http://castlecoalition.org/ima...more.pdf</a>
