Originally Posted By ecdc Get ready to go over the fiscal cliff. Even though a majority of Americans want higher taxes on the rich and no entitlement cuts, the GOP won't budge. Obama compromised, offering to raise the threshold from $250,000 to $400,000, and additional spending cuts. But nosiree, we can't have taxes raised so much as a penny on anyone. And don't even think about touching the defense budget, even though its by far the biggest expense of the government. I look forward to the finger-pointing and the usual lazy, "a pox on both their houses," but make no mistake: if middle-class taxes go up on January 1 and we see another recession, it is the fault of the Republican Party and nothing else.
Originally Posted By Ivan start your quote And don't even think about touching the defense budget, even though its by far the biggest expense of the government. end your quote no you are wrong those entilenments and retirement packages and pensions are killing us more than our military. Military is to big but those entitlements are the number one kulpret.
Originally Posted By SuperDry << I look forward to the finger-pointing and the usual lazy, "a pox on both their houses," but make no mistake: if middle-class taxes go up on January 1 and we see another recession, it is the fault of the Republican Party and nothing else. >> And the opinion polls seem to back up the notion that most people realize what is going on and will put responsibility for the situation on the GOP.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck I can't help but feel that it's their way of paying back the nation for re-electing Obama. I seriously despise these creeps.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Howard Dean on ABC today said going over the cliff, so to speak, may actually help the stock market. What with all the cuts and higher taxes, we will actually have done something to markedly shrink the budget. He said it's possible it hits 15,000 by summer.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo "Even though a majority of Americans want higher taxes on the rich and no entitlement cuts, the GOP won't budge." The richer you are, the more the GOP loves you.
Originally Posted By Ivan I meant culprit not kulpret. but that is immaterial at best anyway. fiscal cliff is from years of waste from to many wars and entitlments. You republicans are to blame for the biggest waste. the party of the people the democarts need to say no for once. anyways keep it up and over we go all the way doooooooooooooown
Originally Posted By ecdc Claire McCaskell also pointed out that if we go over the cliff, Democrats will just introduce bills to lower taxes for anyone making less than $250,000 a year. What, is the GOP going to kill that legislation?
Originally Posted By Dabob2 The Republicans have lost on taxes. They should have taken the deal on $400,000 when Obama offered it and they had the chance. But no - they can't stomach raising taxes on ANY of their rich friends, even back to the entirely non-onerous Clinton levels. Even Boehner's "Plan B" with the million dollar limit couldn't get past the House caucus. Taxes are not the big problem with the cliff. As has been pointed out, it's more like a "fiscal slope" with taxes. Unemployment benefits are the area where it's most like a cliff. If they're not extended, a lot of people are going to lose them suddenly, and that's bad not only for them but for the economy in general, as all that money that is spent almost immediately is essentially pulled out of the economy.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< Howard Dean on ABC today said going over the cliff, so to speak, may actually help the stock market.>>> Yea, except for the recession it's likely to induce.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >> Democrats will just introduce bills to lower taxes for anyone making less than $250,000 a year. What, is the GOP going to kill that legislation?<< That's exactly what they'll do, and be astonished when they get their clocks cleaned in the midterm elections.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Solution: Congress doesn't get paid until the cliff is avoided. I bet it gets solved really fast then.
Originally Posted By melekalikimaka Most politicians (at that level) are wealthy without their congressional salaries. It's not about money, it's about power.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Also on ABC yesterday was a magazine editor (didn't catch his name), who remarked in a discussion about Boehner's effectiveness that the process nowadays likely misses a personality like Sam Rayburn or even Tip O'Neill, who ruled the House on both sides of the aisle. They had the ability to see a situation for what it really was, and would meet in a backroom somewhere, broker a deal, and then tell their flock they better damn well vote for it. Just before this discussion, two freshman Reps from both sides of the aisle were on and were bickering like two school kids, I know you are but what am I, even as the host was trying to cut them off to go to break. It should have been embarrassing for them, but they probably think they "stood up" to the other guy. This magazine editor made the very cogent point of saying "those two lippy freshmen who were on earlier" would NEVER have seen the light of day under Rayburn, making fools of themselves that way. People thought Rayburn's way hindered "democracy", but in retrospect, it might not have been a bad thing after all. It made them remember O'n Neill and Reagan, two castly different politicos who liked each other personally. Reagan had taken a stance on some tax or other, saying he would never raise it, his "feet were encased in cement" on that issue. Well, Reagan saw a need, made a deal, and as he went on the air to announce it he said "that sound you hear is the cement cracking at my feet." Reagan was a lot of things, good and bad, but I'd like to think he would have told Grover Norquist to f off in no uncertain terms. An idiot like Norquist would have been completely irrelevant to the process 25-30 years ago.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder O'Neill and Reagan, two VASTLY different politicos who liked each other personally.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Good article on Reagan and compromise, with the cement story put in its proper context. <a href="http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2012/07/12/155433/commentary-ronald-reagan-and-the.html" target="_blank">http://www.mcclatchydc.com/201...the.html</a>
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Teabaggers are proud of not compromising, strutting around like peacocks, displaying their disgust for any belief or value they don't ascribe to, like obstructionist bullies. They're the reason why government is gridlocked so severely now. And it's all part of the plan, in an attempt to con the American public into believing that government is bad and everything should be privatized. Well, guess what, teabaggers. Americans are wising up now. You didn't gain ground in November -- you lost it. And in two years, you're going to lose even more of it. Americans like what government can do for them. They don't want everything privatized. Big Business doesn't have all the answers. If anything, Big Business is often at the heart of our economic decline, not the solution. And the average American is finally starting to realize it. I hope Obama and the Dems stick to their guns and allow the Republicans to further damage their own brand. Go ahead, you Norquist worshippers. Take us off the cliff, GOP, so the Dems can repair the damage and take the credit. You had your chance to be part of the solution instead being the major part of the problem. But, no... you've got your Ayn Rand philosophical marching orders from the teabaggers to cling to each night. Keep that in mind when you lose your Congressional seats in two years.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer The GOP and Democrats want us to go over the cliff because it raises taxes without having to vote on it, and because it makes spending cuts that they want to make but can't because of the political fallout. Now the GOP can vote for tax cuts without voting to increase taxes on the wealthy. Now the Democrats can cut Pentagon spending without looking soft on defense. And if we go over the cliff and we don't change our tax rates or increase spending, then we've knocked about $10 trillion off the deficit within 10 years.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Not to mention, they can (and will) each blame the other for any negative consequences (perceived or actual) of going over the cliff.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>The GOP and Democrats want us to go over the cliff because it raises taxes without having to vote on it, and because it makes spending cuts that they want to make but can't because of the political fallout.<< I would love to believe that Congress is that cunning. Perhaps a few members are. Most of them, I believe, just aren't all that bright. I mean, on the GOP side, if they can't believe in evolution or that a woman can get pregnant from rape....
