Originally Posted By DyGDisney I'm starting this thread so those of you who are more knowledgeable about politics can explain the TRUTH behind what the far right is spewing. Some things I hear (from my mom who is a Fox News addict), I can't even find a reference to on the internet. Here goes....
Originally Posted By DyGDisney Apparently THEY are saying our government is planning to take healthcare away from the elderly because they are a drain on our healthcare system. THEY are saying the elderly will not be eligible for healthcare.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder THEY are braying donkeys who like to frighten people away from what is really going on.
Originally Posted By ecdc Just watch Jon Stewart every night. He's usually ready with a fresh set of Fox News clips showing just how nuts these people are. On Obama's second day in office they were talking about how he was weakening the country. They routinely refer to his administration as a tyranny. He's a socialist too. Glenn Beck cries. Good time is had by all.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney I'm resurrecting my topic to bring you the latest Republican rant. Apparently, Russia and China (and maybe other unnamed countries) are "dumping the dollar" which will lead to having to stand in loooong lines for bread we won't be able to afford (like Russia after the crash of the Soviet Union). Why are we in the mainstream not hearing about this??? What is this insanity?
Originally Posted By Scottydem I hate Fox News. If I EVER encounter O'Reiley (my dream) I'm going to ask him if he ever DID IT LIVE! ROFL I think that'd be funny.
Originally Posted By DyGDisney I heard that where I hear all my ultra-conservative info --- from my mom! She said she didn't hear it on FOX, but is on some e-mail list and received an e-mail about this happening. She's convinced it's going to happen.
Originally Posted By SuperDry Ask your Mom this: since China is the largest foreign holder of US Treasuries, why would they want to do something that would cause such a dramatic drop in the US dollar's value that we won't even be able to buy bread? If the US Dollar becomes worthless, then China's investment in US Treasuries does as well.
Originally Posted By retlawfan As far as the health insurance situation, I read it as this: The government will enter the healthcare arena as an insurer, not a provider. In doing so, they will have the ability to subsidize costs with tax dollars (or "savings" from other areas of federal spending. In doing so, they'll be able to offer lower cost plans to all Americans. The subsidies have to come from somewhere - that's you and me. By offering lower cost(subsidized) plans, they really wont be competing with current insurance companies. They'll be able to undercut them. Then, more people will choose the government plan. Employers, may see that the government plan is cheaper, and then discontinue their coverage of their employees. Or forced to provide coverage at rate X (which will hurt a lot of small employers, BTW). Also, there have been various places (in currently debated or future legisIation) I have heard that Union employees will not have medical benefits taxed, which leads to the conclusion that non union employees will or might have medical benefits taxed as compensation. How is that fair? Anyway... Medicare (US Government)already doesn't pay doctors what they're owed, but a much lower amount. If they do this in the new system, the doctors will once again be forced to raise rates on the rest of the participants (insurance companies), which will cause higher prices for those with non government insurance plans. This brings us back to the government plan costing less, and more people going there(which is what they want). IF all this works out this way, and a lot of people go to the government plan (or everyone since it's all that's left, what happens when actual costs exceed dollars in the plan? First, less doctors, if the government continues to pay less than doctors are charging. (As it is now, many doctors get a 30 year loan to pay for their education because it costs so much). Squeezing them more is not the answer. THEY are saying that at the point the government cannot pay for everything, rationing will begin. Waiting lists will be used. This is where the seniors being excluded comes in. No, seniors won't be eliminated from coverage, but some procedures/tests might be very hard to get as the government decides the best use of funds. Look to Canada and the UK as examples. Long waiting lists for important, but costly procedures. Many Canadiens come to the US for treatment as it just isn't available in a reasonable time. That's how I hear it. Maybe it's not exactly as it will happen, but it looks like a possibility. I'm not willing to risk my future or my kids future on this. Do I like how the health system in this country works now? NO. Does it need fixing? YES Should the Government be our health care provider? NO. Again, look how Medicare is run. Look how the VA is run. They don't have a very good track record on providing health care. Let's find another solution. Somewhere. Let's get the debate going on reasonable solutions.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan rationing will begin<< Healthcare is already "rationed." In that millions and millions of Americans have no coverage at all, and HMOs decide what services you'll be able to get. The system already is excluding millions of people, even private insurance plans have limits or exclusions. If we're going to discuss "reasonable solutions" then we have to quit with the whole "health care will be rationed!" scare tactic, as if that isn't already going on right now.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Should the Government be our health care provider? NO.<< That isn't what is being proposed.
Originally Posted By retlawfan Connect the dots. It could happen. It is a reasonable conclusion to what is being proposed. "Single Payer" may lead to it. I agree there are a lot of exclusions. That must be a part of the current discussions. Already the drug companies have agreed to work on closing the donut hole. So, there is movement. Yes, there are a lot of people uninsured. But, with that I have to ask: why? I have insurance. I pay for it. I have an employer that offers it. When I was unemployed I chose to go without for a while(BY CHOICE). Then, I chose to get insurance, while unemployed, by going directly to an HMO. Why can't other people do this? Why do we need the givernment to be involved?
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt >>Should the Government be our health care provider? NO.<< "That isn't what is being proposed." So what if it was? Why would that be such a horrible, scary, unthinkable thing? We let the government run a lot things, what's wrong with the government ensuring that all citizens have access to medical treatment?
Originally Posted By ecdc >>That isn't what is being proposed.<< Not only is it not what's being proposed, it was the very first question Obama took at the town hall today. Someone asked why we didn't have a single payer system like most industrialized nations. Obama did a great job of answering and it could very easily be an answer that should satisfy any conservative. He explained that he understands that some people look at France or other nations with far superior healthcare, and wonder why we can't model it. He said that the healthcare industry is 15% of our economy and we cannot afford to shake it up. He also said single payer isn't necessary. He said we could come up with a uniquely American solution that meets our needs. But critics keep trotting out the same talking points from the 1992 election. Since then, our system has gotten so much worse that now these critiques are just laughable, because the fears raised are issues we already have. Healthcare *is* being rationed right now. Long waits *are* going on right now. People are being denied care *today*.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>So what if it was? Why would that be such a horrible, scary, unthinkable thing? We let the government run a lot things, what's wrong with the government ensuring that all citizens have access to medical treatment?<< Because since Vietnam and Watergate, and largely thanks to the rhetoric of Mr. Reagan, Americans have been conditioned to believe that government is just one giant screw-up machine. It's remarkable how often I still hear, "Phfff! Government! They can't even deliver my mail!" I don't know who their postal carrier is - my mail works great, thanks. They take a letter from me on Tuesday and deliver it to my dad 3,000 miles away in three days for 44 cents. Wow - what a disaster! (That mail example brought to you by Bill Maher.) Government has been branded as the bad guy. Then, we decided to elect people who hate government to run government. Yikes! No wonder it didn't turn out so great. But government is like most things: put a competent person in charge, have them recruit competent people, and things can work out just fine. And because some critics of government often live in very black and white, oversimplified worlds themselves, they think that if government isn't perfect, it ought to be scratched. Enough with demonizing government. Seriously. Especially after the complete fiasco the free market, unchecked and deregulated (by conservatives and liberals) has been.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "He said that the healthcare industry is 15% of our economy and we cannot afford to shake it up." And that is probably the best explanation I've heard for why we don't go the single payer route. Much more reasoned than the scare talk the conservatives use about the government managing your health care.
