Originally Posted By DAR <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080630/pl_politico/11429" target="_blank">http://news.yahoo.com/s/politi...co/11429</a> It was wrong for the right to attack John Kerry's service to his country. And it's going to be equally wrong if the left does it. Both men served their country with honor and dignity and for that to be questioned is very shameful.
Originally Posted By X-san ***"A lot of people don't know… that McCain made a propaganda video for the enemy while he was in captivity," wrote Americablog's John Aravosis. "Putting that bit of disloyalty aside, what exactly is McCain's military experience that prepares him for being commander in chief?" "Getting shot down, tortured, and then doing propaganda for the enemy is not command experience," Aravosis wrote in the blog post, entitled "Honestly, besides being tortured, what did McCain do to excel in the military?"*** This John Aravosis person is obviously an asshole.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Not so fast there DAR. I don't think Kerry's service record was attacked as was his ethics and morals. But yes I agree that attacking someone for their service to their country, well that's unacceptable in my book too.
Originally Posted By X-san And I agree that attacking either of those people is, at best, inappropriate. The sad thing is, it was effective in 2004. So I'm not surprised to see the same hateful garbage being regurgitated in 2008.
Originally Posted By X-san **Not so fast there DAR. I don't think Kerry's service record was attacked as was his ethics and morals.** Oh boy. Here we go again. I'll just leave it with post 4. That's my thoughts on the matter, in terms of dredging up possible "bad stuff" (and it's a paltry sum of accusations to say the least, in BOTH cases) in ANY person's service to their country in terms of their fitness for office. Good grief!
Originally Posted By dshyates "I don't think Kerry's service record was attacked " You have got to be kidding. The entire swift boat campaign was to call him a liar. They claimed that his 3 purple hearts came from self inflicted wounds so he could get out, and then claim the he was so hated that his commander tossed him out. So which is it? Maybe Kerry's commander shot him 3 times on 3 seperate occasions to get him thrown out under the three purple heart honorable service clause.
Originally Posted By mele I just read this today: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/30/us/politics/30swift.html?hp" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06....html?hp</a>
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Not so fast there DAR. I don't think Kerry's service record was attacked as was his ethics and morals.<< Yes, his war record was attacked. And the link Mele provided is a perfect example. We've hashed this out on these boards plenty, but every single time someone brings it up that even looks like they're defending the Swift Boaters, plenty of us will be there to correct them. When pressed and challenged, no one has yet been able to provide any evidence *whatsoever* that substantiates the Swift Boaters claims. When challenged *repeatedly* on it over the last several months and even years, the usual suspects on these boards linked to article after article, none of which bothered to prove anything or actually support what their claims were. The facts remain the same: the people who were actually present when the firefight took place all support John Kerry's assessment. The one person who didn't was himself awarded a purple heart for being in the same firefight. Non-partisan group after non-partisan group, notably factcheck.org, has disputed the Swift Boaters claims. If people can't provide the evidence, then let it drop. All we've ever gotten is link after link after link to articles that only quote the commercials or the people involved, most of whom never actually served with John Kerry. Let's be clear: John Kerry was a pretty lousy candidate, especially in hindsight. He ran a lousy campaign. I have no idea what kind of President he would've been (though I'd vote better than the current joker). But the Swift Boat commercials were an absolute low in American politics. Frankly, I'm ashamed that there are still people that cal themselves patriotic and Americans who would stoop so low as to actually defend them. It's truly astounding how far people will sink to justify their politics. And of course, these same people would be practically wetting themselves in anger if someone came along and Swift Boated McCain's war record.
Originally Posted By ecdc My apologies, I saw Mele's link, clicked on it, read the headline and assumed it was the same article I'd read about a week ago. Instead, this one more directly addresses the charges against Kerry: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/22/us/politics/22kerry.html?scp=3&sq=swift+boat&st=nyt" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06...t&st=nyt</a> From the article: >>The veterans offer to go through Mr. Kerry’s record and the video with Mr. Pickens “page by page, frame by frame.†And they demand an apology, to them “and to the American people.†Of course, none of this is new. Extensive news media accounts undermined the Swift boat charges in 2004, pointing out that some of the Swift boat critics had written statements in Vietnam lauding Mr. Kerry for extraordinary bravery in the incidents they later said he made up. One critic had himself received a medal for heroism during a hail of gunfire he later claimed Mr. Kerry had concocted to win his third Purple Heart.<<
Originally Posted By DVC_dad Ok well I wasn't referring to THAT part of things, but yeah I agree with you guys. My bad. He was attacked for his service in those examples no doubt.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad ^ ^ ^ And just to be clear, I don't for a second believe that he injured himself to get out of his tour.
Originally Posted By DlandDug If McCain were basing his qualifications for President purely on his military service, there would be some validity to this criticism. But his twenty years of public service carries far more weight (and basis for political debate) than his well documented record in Viet Nam. It is no surprise that those on the far left would raise this issue. It's just their nature. (Just as it is the nature of those on the far right to raise specious issues.) The original article had as good a response as any I would compose about this: >>"I know and like McCain," said Tom Hayden, a former California state senator and prominent anti-war activist. "From my own perspective and that of many anti-war activists of that era, the fact that he bombed North Vietnam some 25 times, probably killing civilians, gets blurred with the facts that he suffered through that long prison ordeal, then also went on to promote diplomatic relations between the two countries." "It's like asking a guy that served his jail term here — you'd say he's done his time, so that's behind him," Hayden said.<<
Originally Posted By vbdad55 And people wonder why I hit the change channel button as soon as ANY election news comes on. It was crap when it was done to Kerry- and some of the peoiple who whined the loudest will now look to do it to McCain, but somehow they will justify it. I agree with X-San's statement on the loser who made the original statement quoted in this thread. Very hard to be a Rep or Dem right now because there is just so much garbage on both sides.
