Originally Posted By Dirk_D_from_Oregon <a href="http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/adolabor.htm" target="_blank">http://www.ncsl.org/programs/h ealth/adolabor.htm</a> I think, with certain built in safeguards, that any female under the age of 17 should be required to have parental notification before having an abortion performed. The long-term mental aspects of the procedure can be devastating. I realize my opinion will be unpopular, however I am not looking to start any fights. Rather to have a good discusion. Please everybody - No personal attacks. Lets see if we can keep the thread from being closed.
Originally Posted By PlainoLJoe <<The long-term mental aspects of the procedure can be devastating. >> I would think having a kid they couldnt support, going on welfare, food stamps and other govt services for the rest of their life would be much harder than a simple abortion.
Originally Posted By Dirk_D_from_Oregon >I would think having a kid they couldnt support, going on welfare, food stamps and other govt services for the rest of their life would be much harder than a simple abortion.< Just to be clear: You would be ok if you had a daughter 16 or younger having an abortion without you or your wife not having the slightest idea about what was going on? If parental consent is law for virtually every other type of medical procedure on minors, including dental work, how is having an abortion any different?
Originally Posted By berol I think the theory is some can't tell their parents and might die from however they try to abort (back alley, wire hangar,...)
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA <If parental consent is law for virtually every other type of medical procedure on minors, including dental work, how is having an abortion any different?> I'm almost certain that you're not suggesting abortion is just another 'type of medical procedure on minors.' Pregnancy is not like filling cavities in your teeth. An unwanted pregnancy is like nothing else, I would imagine. It seems to me that the big reason for making parental consent a law is to make it more difficult for underage girls to get an abortion. It seems that those in favor of this law want abortion to be very difficult to get, so that young girls will think twice or perhaps three times before engaging in unprotected sex with someone they're not married to. That's why people in favor of this law, like this law. So, if 16 year old Heather gets pregnant, and she wants to get an abortion without her parents knowledge, what are her options? Heather gets to either: a. Keep the baby, as a single mom. b. Keep the baby, and get married to the baby's daddy. c. Give it up for adoption. d. Go to some clinic where someone will perform an abortion illegaly. The whole idea of getting an abortion is so that the young girl does NOT have to tell her parents. But again, the law would be there, not because Heather's parents would want to know, but it's designed as a deterrent to having pre-marriage sexual relations. Over the years, I've been able to talk with several women who had an abortion as a young woman. For the most part, they're at peace with their decision. I also have a close relative in my family, who gave up a child for adoption 40+ years ago, and my brother and sister and I aren't supposed to know about it. For this relative, it was obviously a shameful experience. She got pregnant, her parents 'sent her away' for 9 months], she had the baby, gave it up for adoption, and to my knowledge, hasn't see him since. It's not discussed. So, I'm not sure that having an abortion is as 'devastating' as has been surmised here. I don't know. It seems that the devastation lives on for my relative who gave up her baby 40 years ago.
Originally Posted By FaMulan There's part of the equation that's mising: Kids don't want parents to know they're having sex and kids aren't being taught the good, bad and ugly of having sex. The current law of the land is to teach abstinence and denial of natural urges, not the reality of what happens when boy meets girl with no contraception. So, if teenage girl gives into a night of more than kissing with her boyfriend and, not knowing her contraceptive options, opts for unprotected sex, and gets pregnant, she has a very scary scenario to face: Does she tell her parents and suffer whatever may happen depending on the kind of parents they are? Does she keep her secret by changing her clothing to hide a pregnancy, have the child and dump it in a dumpster because she also will not know she can take it to a hospital to give it up? Does she keep her secret by having an abortion? I think the solution is to break down the taboos associated with sex education. Let kids know, in technicolor, all the good, bad, and ugly of sex and make them aware of their contraceptive/protective options, including but not limited to abstinence, condoms, etc. There will always be kids who have no real communication with their parents. That's what needs to be worked on.
Originally Posted By Dirk_D_from_Oregon <<I'm almost certain that you're not suggesting abortion is just another 'type of medical procedure on minors.' Pregnancy is not like filling cavities in your teeth.>> No Jim, you are correct. I am not suggesting that. I am making the point that very minor medical procedures require parental consent. And that it seems crazy that a procedure like an abortion can be performed on a minor without parental notification. <<It seems to me that the big reason for making parental consent a law is to make it more difficult for underage girls to get an abortion.>> That may be true for others I am sure, however for myself it is not. Or for the majority of my friends. I am actually pro-choice. So are most of my friends. But I feel like parental notification should be in effect here. I am not saying that I would not allow the procedure. But I do love my daughter and would want to be a part of any decision she makes regarding this matter. And its up to me to make sure it never happens, but God forbid, if it did I would like the law to be in place. <<That's why people in favor of this law, like this law.>> Sorry, I dont agree. I believe you may be gereralizing here. <<The whole idea of getting an abortion is so that the young girl does NOT have to tell her parents.>> There are an infinate number of reasons women chose to abort, just neglecting to use any precautions to name 1. <<But again, the law would be there, not because Heather's parents would want to know, but it's designed as a deterrent to having pre-marriage sexual relations.>> Not in my case Jim. And I suspect Nationwide there are a good deal of moderates like myself on both sides of the political spectrum that feel like me. <<Over the years, I've been able to talk with several women who had an abortion as a young woman. For the most part, they're at peace with their decision.>> I happen to know some, my sister is just 1, that are haunted by having it done. Who is to say what affects a person worse? And what difference does it make whether or not parents should be notified before such a huge decision is made? <<So, I'm not sure that having an abortion is as 'devastating' as has been surmised here. I don't know.>> That is a question you and I can never know.
Originally Posted By Dirk_D_from_Oregon <<There's part of the equation that's mising: Kids don't want parents to know they're having sex and kids aren't being taught the good, bad and ugly of having sex. The current law of the land is to teach abstinence and denial of natural urges, not the reality of what happens when boy meets girl with no contraception.>> Actually, thats not the current law of the land. Condoms are available in many schools now. In health class contraception and safe sex is also taught. The Bush administration WANTS it to be just about abstinence, but thats not whats happening. I know this to be true in Oregon, where I am on my local school board. <<I think the solution is to break down the taboos associated with sex education. Let kids know, in technicolor, all the good, bad, and ugly of sex and make them aware of their contraceptive/protective options, including but not limited to abstinence, condoms, etc.>> I could not possibly agree with you more. But sometimes things happen no matter what the relationship is between parents and kids. And most kids that opt for abortion KNOW they can go to planned parenthood and get it done without parental consent. If parental notification was required and everybody knew it then maybe kids would not opt to use abortion as birth control.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo Dirk makes some very valid points. One issue I have is that parents are legally responsible for their children until adulthood, and as such should be entitled to this sort of information. There are hundreds of things our children do or will do that they do not want us to know about including drugs, sex, theft, gangs, etc... Should we also expect to see government sponsored drug rehabilitation programs for adolescents to hide information about our children from us? As parents, we should be the ones to help our children to grow, not Big Brother…or Big Momma in this case. And I also see something very unethical if our taxes are paying for treatments the government has the authority hide from us about our children, again those whom we are legally responsible for.
Originally Posted By DVC_dad IF I were a physician, there is NO WAY I would perform abortions on underage kids. I am UNDECIDED on the laws of notification, but I am easily CONFUSED about HOW a doc can do this to a minor without parental conscent when parental conscent is required for something as minor as dental fillings, at least in Georgia.
Originally Posted By mele LOL, I just wondered if it had something to do with the whole uterus issue. ;-)
Originally Posted By jonvn Because a parent does not have the right to saddle a kid with a baby at that early an age. Having an abortion can be an emotional problem for some people. Having an unwanted child at 14 can be an even worse one, that lasts a lifetime. That's why it's like this.
Originally Posted By mele I think the age of consent to receive (or deny) medical treatment in the state of Washington is 13. I believe it's for all sorts of medical treatments but I specifically know that it entails mental services. I'm not sure how I feel about it. I pray my children come to me when they need help. So many parents ignore their kids these days.
Originally Posted By tiggertoo <<LOL, I just wondered if it had something to do with the whole uterus issue. ;-)>> LOL! Well I first typed “Big Daddy†but thought it made our government sound too...pimpish. ;-) <<Because a parent does not have the right to saddle a kid with a baby at that early an age.>> But parental approval is not on the table. It may so be that the child may have the abortion regardless of the parent’s approval. This is about notifying the parent of the medical procedures their children are undergoing. If the child is upset about the parents being notified, there may be a way to provide an intermediary. However, parents should be entitled to information about their children. Heck, don’t schools require report cards to be signed by the parents to prove that they were notified of their child’s academic progress? I would consider medical procedures of any kind to be treated to a greater degree. <<Having an abortion can be an emotional problem for some people. Having an unwanted child at 14 can be an even worse one, that lasts a lifetime.>> So can drug use, alcoholism, tobacco use, gang violence, bullying, poor academic progress, and a plethora of other issues. Do we then prevent parents from receiving any bad news about their children due to the risk of the parent becoming upset? Is that REALLY protecting our children? Not in my opinion. Anyhow, it seems accountability is a word that is being lost in this day and age. Many of us wonder why we cannot count on our government to be honest with us. If they can hide information about our children from us, why should we expect them to be forthright in other matters e.g. warrant-less wiretaps, etc… Integrity is an important principle. And let me tell you, IT ALL STARTS IN THE HOME!
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I don't think parental notification laws will do what the creators of the laws hope: They won't really slow down the rate of abortion, they won't make families who don't talk about sex now suddenly begin a dialogue, and they won't have any real impact on encouraging teens to engage in safe sex or "think twice" about it. The only thing that will help is, as fa mulan says, more discussion and the full story about sex taught at an early enough age to do some good. Open and honest dialogue is something a lot of families are uncomfortable with. Kids (and adults) are fed a constant message that sex is either the end-all-be-all or something that makes adults blush and uncomfortable to talk about. I think there's a fine line between not making kids grow up too fast and telling the information they need to know when they need to know it. Most of us, as parents, delay talking about certain things too long, as our kids are often ready to hear it long before we think they are, and a lot of that is due to our own discomfort with the subject. All that said, I am very uncomfortable with the idea of an underage child getting a medical procedure of any kind without the parents knowing. This places the government in a role that was never intended and opens up a whole host of slippery slope issues. Perhaps if society in general stopped acting as if sex was the end-all-be-all, or at the other end of the spectrum, something dirty that we don't talk about, abortions might actually decline. Treating the subject in a little more matter-of-fact way, including the subject of male responsibility and accountability, can only help.
Originally Posted By PlainoLJoe <<Just to be clear: You would be ok if you had a daughter 16 or younger having an abortion without you or your wife not having the slightest idea about what was going on?>> no doubt.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder <<Just to be clear: You would be ok if you had a daughter 16 or younger having an abortion without you or your wife not having the slightest idea about what was going on?>> Disclaimer- I don't have kids. But if I did, I'd like for a daughter of mine to tell me what was going on, you can be sure of that. However, if she wanted to abort, I would never, ever stop her.
Originally Posted By Dirk_D_from_Oregon <<Because a parent does not have the right to saddle a kid with a baby at that early an age. Having an abortion can be an emotional problem for some people. Having an unwanted child at 14 can be an even worse one, that lasts a lifetime.>> Who said anything about saddling kids with kids? And who are you to say what is worse mentally on a person? I know two girls my own age that had children when they were 15 and 16. They tell me stories about the unbelievable hardships they have endured. But you know what? They both say they would do it again. The bonds between the parents and children is unshakeable.
