Originally Posted By skinnerbox Worst unemployment since June 1983. (I personally know of four professionals with advanced degrees who've been out of work for at least one year, and counting.) This is why we need single payer, to get these massive health insurance premiums off the balance sheets of US companies. It would make it more affordable for American labor to compete in the global economy. Even contractors and self-employed workers have to charge more, in order to cover their individual policy premiums. How can any American worker compete with international labor when they don't have to pay through the nose for for-profit health insurance coverage? Until American consumers have confidence in getting and keeping good jobs again, so they'll open up their wallets and spend money, this situation will not reverse. We are a consumer-based economy. But no one will buy goods and services if they're afraid of losing their jobs and being forced to purchase outrageously expensive individual health insurance policies with money that would otherwise be "disposable." The nation continues to dig its own grave so a small number of executives and investors remain wealthy at the expense of the health of Americans and the economy itself. Enough.
Originally Posted By hopemax And the current numbers may be too optimistic! <a href="http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=aGBkhROUjNds" target="_blank">http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/...hROUjNds</a> "The U.S. economic slump earlier this year was so severe it short-circuited the government’s model for calculating payrolls, raising the risk that today’s jobs report may be too optimistic. About 824,000 more jobs may be subtracted from the payroll count for the 12 months through last March when the figures are officially revised early next year, a Labor Department report showed today. The revision would be the biggest since at least 1991. "
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 Damn. I hate when this happens. In retrospect, maybe it wasn't such a good idea to pay US autoworkers $60 an hour to stand around doing nothing for 45 minutes of that hour.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<You can't have a global economy without global economy payscales.>> In which case anyone making over $3/hr is grossly overpaid. WHich is also why there won't be a "recovery". Corporate America won't be restoring any of the jobs they've been cutting, at least not in the US. Get used to 10% unemployment, because it's the "new normal". No bubbles to save us this time.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Get used to 10% unemployment<< I think we will be extremely lucky if that's all it is.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox Agreed, mawnck. Earlier this summer, economists at both UCLA and UC Santa Barbara predicted that national unemployment would definitely hit double digits by January, with California's unemployment ranging between 13% and 15%. Unfortunately, I could easily see that scenario coming true.
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<In retrospect, maybe it wasn't such a good idea to pay US autoworkers $60 an hour to stand around doing nothing for 45 minutes of that hour.>> IIRC, new hires are only getting $14/hr. I wonder who Corporate America expects to buy their crap once everyone's pay is reduced to minimum wage? I have to admit that I am always puzzled when people cheer the destruction of good paying jobs. I have lived in a 3rd world country. Trust me, it isn't pleasant.
Originally Posted By davewasbaloo Because fkurucz, to many, ignarance is bliss. And the US sadly is a country full of ignorami. :-(
Originally Posted By mawnck >>Because fkurucz, to many, ignarance is bliss.<< Not for much longer .......
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt Has anyone noticed this year that as the jobless rate has risen so has the stock market? Coincidence?
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<I have to admit that I am always puzzled when people cheer the destruction of good paying jobs.>> Here in Michigan, Union workers extracted an OBSCENE amount of money per hour to do NEXT TO NOTHING. And that arrangement contributed to the collapse of our economy. I'm not cheering that "good paying jobs" are lost. I'm only stating the obvious: Union greed (along with corporate greed) put us in the situation we're in. Do you disagree with that?
Originally Posted By Mr X I do. I'm not sure what you consider an obscene amount of money, but I'd be interested in seeing what sort of net take home pay these workers are getting. I'd also like to see how their pay stacks up against the management teams of said companies. As for doing "next to nothing", I would like to see some evidence of that.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<I do.>> Yeah, it's hard to observe what really happens on the US union lines when you're half a world away. <<I'm not sure what you consider an obscene amount of money, but I'd be interested in seeing what sort of net take home pay these workers are getting.>> $45 an hour. Shift differential. Time-and-a-half for whatever. Double-pay for over-time. Triple-pay for special whatever. Enough to make them blue-collar workers who took home more than did degreed high school teachers, university professors, or white-collar corporate management bitches. <<I'd also like to see how their pay stacks up against the management teams of said companies.>> I didn't say that management wasn't simililarly greedy. In fact, I conceded that. <<As for doing "next to nothing", I would like to see some evidence of that.>> "Evidence"? You could try to Google for that. But I'm sure both sides have been careful to avoid documenting how unionization has decreased productivity. You want anecdotal stories? I worked in a union shop. My parents were union. My relatives are union. I could tell you stories for days. Get real, X. The Unions exist to extract the most money possible and to minimize as much as possible the work that union members actually do. And they have been incredibly successful. And that is largely why we're in the situation we're in.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt I'm not going to argue about whether or not unions are good or bad for America. What I'm more concerned about are the crooks that are running these businesses and the ridiculous salaries that they make. Anyone who doesn't understand how we got into the mess were in under the thumb of corrupt corporate greed hasn't been paying attention for the past year or so. Lazy union workers had nothing to do with that.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***<<I do.>> Yeah, it's hard to observe what really happens on the US union lines when you're half a world away.*** Cheap shot. Not to mention irrelevant to the discussion. Are you actually ON the union lines yourself Inspector? If not, then you and I have just as much ability to gather information as anyone else in any location (even halfway around the world).
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Enough to make them blue-collar workers who took home more than did degreed high school teachers, university professors, or white-collar corporate management bitches.*** I'm curious as to why you believe any blue collar worker is inherently deserving of less money than, say, a high school teacher or (as you put it) a white collar management bitch.
Originally Posted By Inspector 57 <<I'm not going to argue about whether or not unions are good or bad for America.>> Why not? <<Anyone who doesn't understand how we got into the mess were in under the thumb of corrupt corporate greed hasn't been paying attention for the past year or so. Lazy union workers had nothing to do with that.>> Okay. You're saying that since there was CORPORATE greed, Union greed is irrelevant. You're saying that the unioninzed laziness of US workers is not related to our current economic situation. You are so wrong.
