Originally Posted By ecdc The outrage really just proves what a lot of us have said since 9/11: When Americans say they're willing to sacrifice some liberty and privacy for security, what they really meant was they'd be willing to sacrifice some liberty and privacy of other people (especially those with brown skin) for security.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper I have travelled quite a bit in the past few weeks and have yet to be sent to the xray machine. (I've also witnessed "brown skin" people avoiding the more intrusive screenings.) I would have taken no issue to either though. Of course, I'm not getting a lot of "attention" at home right now so maybe that is impacting my view of the pat down.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Thanks for bringing this up. I've got some thoughts ... whadda surprise, huh. Most of you know that I'm about as bleeding heart liberal as they come, and my concerns about civil liberties run strong. But for the life of me I'm not seeing mucch controversy here. People are objecting to submitting to this backscatter imaging because their bodies can be 'somewhat' viewed, including butts, boobies, and whathaveyou "down there". Do you really think you've got something special? Or is it that your body modesty is so strong that the thought of some stranger in another room seeing your outlines causing intense embarrassment? I don't get it. These folks are processing thousands of people every hour all day every day. I doubt that they are deriving any sensual gratification from seeing your graven image. Likewise, the pat down is likely as unpleasant for them as it is for the "pattee". Think about it - would you really want to rub your hands up and down the inside of strangers' legs for a living? Don't misunderstand, I do believe that the process is intrusive and cumbersome, including removing shoes and belts and pocket contents. But I also understand the need for airline screening. Related issue - the people who are opposed to this are coming at it from every wrong angle imaginable - the "danger" posed by radiation, the babies an little old ladies who should be but aren't exempt. The muslim women who are claiming a religious exemption. And worst - the extreme righties who are using the whole controversy as an excuse to advocate for racial profiling - also known as "I'm white and I'm american and I don't need to be screened. Do it to the brown skinned people instead". Here's an idea - shut up, get in line, take off your shoes and your belts, stand in the machine, and then collect your things and be on your way. Suck it up. Or don't fly. The choice is yours.
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Originally Posted By Donny I would like to see the TSA downsized to just a few people screen luggage and the metal detector.I think before 9-11 we all thought if a terrorist takes over a plane they would give a list of demands and then we would all get let go now pilots are trained not to let anyone in and passengers get involved.
Originally Posted By disneydad109 he who gives some of his freedom to keep his liberty will soon lose both . Who said thyat,I don't recall ?
Originally Posted By skinnerbox "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin
Originally Posted By gadzuux The "liberty" to . . . what - not have people see the outline of your body? I don't see this as a liberty issue, but ironically it seems that the same people who were shrugging off the data mining that the bush administration put in place - every phone call, every email, every internet post, every tweet - as "no big deal" - "I've got nothing to hide" - are the ones who seem to be squawking the loudest over this. Remember, the Dept of Homeland Security was created by Bush and he put Chertoff in position in the first place. Not that I think this should be an issue that breaks down along red/blue lines.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Says the guy who cared so little about his safety that he electrocuted himself.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper 10 for 9. But, there are far more grave issues of safety in my opinion. Our ports are still woefully insecure. With the massive cruise ships these days you could easily target 20,000 or more on a typical Sunday at ports in Ft Lauderdale or Miami.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>Do you really think you've got something special?<< Mr. Happy is not on trial here!
Originally Posted By disneydad109 thanks Sbox , i was in the ball park but working with my failing recall.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I don't get it. These folks are processing thousands of people every hour all day every day. I doubt that they are deriving any sensual gratification from seeing your graven image. > I agree. I'm very jealous of civil liberties, but I just don't see this as any more intrusive than the metal detector. I've read many times that people who go to nudist camps lose any sexual thrill they might have expected very quickly. And that's with actual naked bodies, not glorified x-rays. It becomes routine. So how much more routine would seeing these scans all day, every day become? In about 10 minutes, I'd think, it would become exactly what it is - a job. And if these scans are good at catching things like someone trying to sneak on chemicals or other dangerous substances, I'm fine with it. Hell, if they'd scan the shoes while they were at it in the body scan, which meant you didn't have to take them off, I'd consider it a net win!
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I've read many times that people who go to nudist camps lose any sexual thrill they might have expected very quickly.<< Luckily, there's pills for that now.
Originally Posted By DAR Since 9/11 I've probably traveled more then I did when I was younger. I'm used to taking off my shoes and belt and emptying my pockets before going through security. This is just one more thing that I can't really object to. Though as far as workers getting some thrill over it, there's bound to be one sicko in the bunch.
Originally Posted By barboy2 ///he electrocuted himself./// I hate it when that happens. I 'electrocuted' myself last week and now I am a "ghost" writer.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***And if these scans are good at catching things like someone trying to sneak on chemicals or other dangerous substances, I'm fine with it*** They're not though, that's one of the big issues. Thing that really struck me is, Israel doesn't use em. Think about that. ISRAEL doesn't use these things...are they really any good? I'll say one thing though, I'll bet they catch a lot of minor miscreants with dope in their drawers.
