Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan "In 99 percent of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out." This from "dr." Michael Savage, right wing nutball radio host. There's more comments he vomited into his microphone, but it's really not worth the trouble to copy and paste them. They're as ill-informed as you'd expect from Mr. Weiner (his real name). Yes, parents of autistic kids have it too, too easy. Let's heap more uniformed scorn and judgement on them, pulled directly out of our.... radios. But Mr. Weiner says he was "taken out of context." Ah, the classic defense of the indefensible.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder <a href="http://mb.laughingplace.com/MsgBoard-T-98441-P-1.asp" target="_blank">http://mb.laughingplace.com/Ms...-P-1.asp</a>
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost I am not attempting to put anything or anyone down, but, I do have a question. Let me start it by saying that back in the dark ages (the time of my childhood) many problems were called by other names. TB, for example, was referred to as consumption. No one ever died of cancer, at least not in the back woods were I was raised, I'm sure they had cancer, they just didn't know about it. Anyway my question is I never heard the words Autism or even ADD, as far as that goes, until recent times. I don't remember any excessive amounts of behavioral problems, certainly not like we witness today and everyone was responsible for their own forward movement. If you didn't do well in school, you stayed back and were given the chance to do better next time. I'm sure that created some trauma, but, life doesn't always deal one a winning hand, sometimes we fail. It's good to learn that early. Anyway, does anyone know if it existed before under a different name or is this more a product of our recent times and life styles? This is a serious question, no loaded intent, just curious about what others think.
Originally Posted By Mr X Good comments Goofy. Frankly, I think it's important to differentiate between Autism and ADD, both are very real (of course), but often misunderstood. I'm not sure if it's the case with Autism, but I DO believe frankly that ADD is frequently misdiagnosed (over diagnosed?), and overly medicated when other therapeutic options are under-utilized (the whole "okay, give the kid ritalin and all your problems are solved" is a big farce imho). I do not believe that Autism has similar issues, but I could be wrong because I'm not all that familiar with the current situation nor the condition itself beyond the most extreme cases that we've all heard about. I think it's logical to assume that, with todays body of psychiatric knowledge to draw from, that more doctors are IDENTIFYING relatively mild cases of Autism more now than ever before (and of course that can lead to incorrect diagnoses as well), but I don't believe that makes it any less of an acute, REAL, neurological condition. ***Anyway my question is I never heard the words Autism or even ADD, as far as that goes, until recent times.*** While ADD is a recent term, I learned about Autism in early childhood. I'm 37, so how old ARE you anyway? ;p ***I don't remember any excessive amounts of behavioral problems, certainly not like we witness today and everyone was responsible for their own forward movement. If you didn't do well in school, you stayed back and were given the chance to do better next time. I'm sure that created some trauma, but, life doesn't always deal one a winning hand, sometimes we fail. It's good to learn that early.*** Well, it depends right. To put this into physical medical terms, a kid who had a "bum leg" back in the day would lose his leg to amputation, and that would be chalked up to "sometimes life ain't fair". These days, it might be possible to perform surgery on the leg, or whatever, and the kid can go on to live a regular life (maybe even run track). So, would you assume that because such possibilities didn't exist before, they shouldn't exist now? Vague example, I know, but I'm tired tonight. I hope the point makes sense. ***Anyway, does anyone know if it existed before under a different name or is this more a product of our recent times and life styles?*** I think it's a little of both. Folks who suffered from such problems a long time ago were labeled "insane" and thrown into an institution for life. Now, we might be facing the oposite problem where some who might just be going through natural rebellion or issues that they should learn to deal with themselves are labeled "ADD" or Autistic (IS there a problem with over diagnosing autism? I've not heard much about that), and that's a whole other can of worms.
Originally Posted By DAR The term Autism has been around for years, although I knew that because of my father's job in special education.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost >>>While ADD is a recent term, I learned about Autism in early childhood. I'm 37, so how old ARE you anyway?<<< 60 on Sunday...just after electic lights and just before space travel.
Originally Posted By queenbee I think it always existed but as life got more complicated, society noticed. I am 38 and remember a woman from my childhood that I now recognize as probably having Asperger's. She was able to hold a job at the library and supported herself. Today I don't think that could happen. She would need a caregiver to negociate retirement planning, insurance needs and any type of major purchase. I teach elementary school. What was expected of 5 year old in the 1940's is vastly different than what's expected today. Kindergarten kids have not changed, society did. Kids like the lady I mentioned above stand out.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I think it always existed but as life got more complicated, society noticed.<< I think that's exactly right. Diagnosing diseases and classifying them is a difficult thing. Autism is a perfect example; it's pretty clear that autism is not always a black and white disease. There's a scale with some kids severely autistic and others less so. My youngest son actually has some of the signs for autism and his pediatrician was concerned about it. He has always been very different from his brother - he plays by himself for hours and doesn't like crowds. He's not at all affectionate and struggles to interact with other children. He's nearly 5 years old but when we go to Disneyland, the thumb immediately goes in the mouth and he won't speak or respond for quite a while. But eventually, he works his way out of it. I suspect that he probably does have some things that make him close to mildly autistic, but not strong enough that he qualifies for the definition - if that makes any sense. The fact that it's a diagnosis that's sometimes difficult to classify apparently means it's fake in Savage's eyes. And of course, he's unrepentant and refuses to apologize or retract his comments. This is of course the difference between right wing radio and someone like Imus. The kind of people who listen to Savage probably love his comments and think it's great he refuses to back down. Yet more "truthiness" from the right wing. They believe it, so it must be true - they don't need facts to get in the way of their feelings.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>The fact that it's a diagnosis that's sometimes difficult to classify apparently means it's fake in Savage's eyes.<< Yes. And if he can't understand it, it is immediately branded a weakness of some kind that can be scolded out of a child somehow. He makes the off-the-cuff declaration that autism is a "racket" and somehow overdiagnosed in "99%" of cases. He bases this on... nothing. Just more hot air and hysteria from the #3 rated right wing talker. Among talk radio hosts, he really is Capt. Tinfoil Hat.
Originally Posted By dshyates When I was a kid the term "retarded" covered a vast array of mental issues. And instead of treatment most were just institutionalized.
Originally Posted By dshyates From Wiki: Rosemary Kennedy (1918–2005) Likely dyslexic and considered to be slightly brain-damaged from birth, Rose Marie Kennedy (her christening name) was rendered incapable of intelligible speech or caring for herself by a lobotomy, a popular neurosurgical technique of the time, requested by her father, Joe Sr., that was intended to cure her increasing mood swings and make her more manageable. The operation instead reduced her to an infantile state. She lived in a residential care facility in Wisconsin until her death on 7 January 2005.
Originally Posted By Mr X **60 on Sunday...just after electic lights and just before space travel.** lol. Well, congrats! Okay, so considering the era you grew up in I can understand relatively where you stand, but you also must remember that when you were growing up there were MANY forms of mental illness that were ill-understood and often all lumped into the basic catagory of "insane". So while there were certainly some autistic people around at the time, they simply weren't referred to as such (just as there were certainly some troubled youth who were crying out for help with thier behavior problems which would've been identified as ADD these days...and the only help those kids got back then was a beating...right?).
Originally Posted By Dabob2 < Yes. And if he can't understand it, it is immediately branded a weakness of some kind that can be scolded out of a child somehow. He makes the off-the-cuff declaration that autism is a "racket" and somehow overdiagnosed in "99%" of cases.> Yeah, it seems there's a certain (hopefully small) subset of conservatives who despise what they see as "weakness" or people who need help, however legitimately. Savage's comments immediately recalled Limbaugh's about Michael J. Fox "flailing around" and "obvious faking" his Parkinson's symptoms, remember that?
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost I think what was classified as "insanity" back when I was a kid was very carefully segregated from the rest of, so called, normal people. That I understand, but, the part that puzzled me was the fact that through-out my growing years I never met anyone that I would have classified as strange or different. We had some "slow" kids in class with us, but they always managed to do well enough to get by, with a few exceptions. I wouldn't say that a kid would get a beating if they had problems, that was even before my time, but, it would be made very clear that more was expected from them and that everyone was disappointed. I am not an expert so I'm just thinking out-loud, that putting an insurmountable label, such as autism, on a child, would be less comforting then to be able to feel that with some effort, one could succeed. Eventually, all those kids have to find a way to cope with life. Their parents are not going to live forever, so what happens to them if they still have the label but no support system. Are we doing them a disservice or is the problem really insurmountable? What does happen? Is this label too new to know what the end result is?
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Psychiatrist Walter Freeman wanted to simplify the (lobotomy) procedure so that it could be carried out by psychiatrists in mental asylums, which housed roughly 600,000 American inpatients at the time. Freeman decided to access the frontal lobes through the eye sockets, instead of through drilled holes in the scalp. In 1945, he took an icepick from his own kitchen and began to test the new surgical technique on cadavers. The technique was called "transorbital lobotomy," and it involved lifting the upper eyelid and placing the point of a thin surgical instrument (often called a leucotome or orbitoclast) under the eyelid and against the top of the eyesocket. A hammer or mallet was then used to drive the leucotome through the thin layer of bone and into the brain. The leucotome was then moved from side to side, to sever the nerve fibers connecting the frontal lobes to the thalamus. In selected patients, the butt of the leucotome was pulled upward, sending the tip farther back into the brain and producing a "deep frontal cut," a more radical form of lobotomy. The leucotome was then withdrawn, and the procedure was repeated on the other side. Walter Freeman first performed a transorbital lobotomy on a live patient in 1946. This new form of psychosurgery was intended for use in State mental hospitals that often did not have the facilities for anesthesia, so Freeman suggested using electroconvulsive therapy to render the patient unconscious.*** Perhaps this was the fate of some of those folks suffering from Autism and ADD back in those days. *shudder*
