Originally Posted By Donny and should he be granted amnesty ? <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/08/edward-snowdens-real-impact.html">http://www.newyorker.com/onlin...act.html</a>
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Whether he is a hero or not depends on whether or not you think the government has the right to do what it is doing through the NSA. Tom Paine and Sam Adams were heroes to some and traitors to others.
Originally Posted By EdisYoda While I belive we needed to know to what extent the NSA is alledgedly spying on us, I believe that Snowden is a traitor.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer He's definitely a traitor from the government's perspective, but the world is a lot bigger than just the US or the government. He revealed information about programs that he had ethical and moral issues with, and risked his life doing so. He believed that the programs were unconstitutional. In the sense that he did what he did to right a perceived wrong at great personal risk I think that you can see him as a hero.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Traitor. If he didn't like what was going on he should have quit has job there and told the press, someone in Congress, whoever, what he saw happening and let them investigate. To steal the records and release them to foreign governments was not the way to handle it and makes him a traitor.
Originally Posted By ecdc I think both labels aren't the best way to approach it. Wringing our hands over Snowden is the exact wrong way to think about this issue. The real issue is the United States and surveillance, not if we like the person who revealed the data or how they did it. Our country is obsessed with right and wrong behavior of individuals, and if they meet some preconceived expectations we all have. If not, we render harsh judgment. Me, I'm of the opinion that once you give up privacy or freedom, it's almost impossible to get it back. And those that take the privacy, almost always overreach, counting on the exact response we've given them: "Why golly, if they wanna listen to me wishing Aunt Mabel a Merry Christmas, I just don't care!" Well I do care, and the fact that the program has continued unabated under Obama just proves the point many of us make: You might like giving power to the guy you support, but the next guy will use it too. I'd just assume President Rick "Sex is for Procreation Only" Santorum not monitor the behavior of Americans.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt Whether he's a hero or an idiot is yet to seen, and the chip he has on his shoulder with the US Government has greatly impaired his judgement. Russians and Brazilians aren't exactly free from their governments oppressing and/or spying on them.
Originally Posted By ecdc The other Snowden angle is that the aggressive pursuit of plugging leaks and prosecuting whistleblowers has cut off almost all avenues of legal recourse. People say, "oh he should've just done _____" as if working within a huge bureaucracy is as simple as that, or that anyone he talks to would listen. Do not underestimate how insular bureaucracies can be, and the lengths they'll go to, even in the face of overwhelming evidence in life and death situations. I'm reading "The Good Nurse" by Charles Graeber, a book about Charlie Cullen, the most prolific serial killer in American history. He was a nurse who may have poisoned over 400 patients. But the really astounding part of the story is that hospitals knew or suspected him of this, but never, ever called the police. They were obsessed about how they would appear, so Cullen would quit or get fired, and just move on to the next hospital. He was only caught when a pharmacist broke protocol and called poison control, who then called the police. In other words, the company had created an environment where *reporting murder* was a fireable offense.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer "If he didn't like what was going on he should have quit has job there and told the press" That is exactly what he did.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder There's no question he's a traitor. He's also complicit in any number of deep cover deaths as a result of his actions. He needs t returned to the U.S. for trial and then stored away at Leavenworth for the rest of his days.
Originally Posted By Witches of Morva ORDDU: Compared to so many others he's a hero. He did something few others have had the courage to do--to expose certain facts that everyone in America has the right to know. The REAL question to ask is which politicians among you are traitors. So few of them want to follow the constitution any longer.
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder Well, that cinches it. If the guy who pretends be three witches admires Snowden, Snowden's definitely a cowardly turd.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip <<That is exactly what he did.>> No it is not. He stole the detailed information and released it. I was talking about going to media or congressional watchdogs and reporting that the NSA was collecting data on millions of Americans' phone calls when there was no reason to suspect them of anything. Instead he released a massive amount of detailed information, including surveillance activities that WERE justified and should have remained hidden from public view.
Originally Posted By Donny See how SingleParkPassHolder has to personally attack a person to win an argument. I wonder how he would feel if someone knew some embarrassing things about him ????
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder All sorts of people know all sorts of things about me. What's your point? Why did you post this thread? What's your opinion of Snowden?
