Originally Posted By DAR is a bunch of d-bags. <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091023/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_nuclear" target="_blank">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200..._nuclear</a>
Originally Posted By mawnck Iran's current leadership sucks. I certainly wouldn't extend that to all Iranians.
Originally Posted By DAR I'll agree not all Iranians are bad. But the leadership since the Shah has pretty much sucked.
Originally Posted By ecdc A good friend of mine was in New York during the U.N. meetings and he spent three hours in a room with Ahmadinejad. He spoke and took questions. My friend came away with a completely different view of the man and a very strong distrust for American media. First, Ahmadinejad was very clear that he was not a Holocaust denier. His whole point was that there have been many Holocausts and genocides since WWII, but that they are neglected. He said that the Holocaust has become, for lack of a better term, so revered and so awe-inducing that you aren't allowed to have any kind of conversation about it. He simply questions why an event like the Holocaust gives Europe the right to create Israel in the Middle East and ship their Jews to it. He said that all Europeans mistreated their Jews, and the Holocaust gave them an excuse to essentially get rid of them. He just thinks it's unfair that Jews are so revered because of this event and Palestinians are ignored as Israel continues to expand into the West Bank. Disagree with him, but he's right - we really can't have a conversation about this because of the Holocaust 60+ years ago? Second, Iran's government has three branches like ours: executive, legislative, and judicial. The legislative branch is powerless. The executive is chosen by the judicial. The judicial is run by the Mullah's and religious leaders, and actually has all the power. Even though Iran has elections for the President, the Mullah's have to approve who runs and who wins. Ahmadinejad said that Americans are used to a powerful President, so they see him as the Iranian figurehead and blame him for everything that happens, when really nearly all power relies in the religious leaders. Iraq was a secular state; Iran is not. Well naturally my friend was pretty skeptical - some of Ahmadinejad's statements seemed pretty self-serving. So he asked some of the people who are experts on the Middle East and Iran specifically that he'd met, if all this was true. They said it absolutely was and that while they don't agree with Ahmadinejad on everything, they said he's clearly an intelligent man who's been demonized in the American press as the figurehead of this country led by hyper-religious extremists. Our media wants a horse race. They've created a story of us vs. them with Iran. We talk openly about bombing them. Can you imagine DAR's reaction if another country said they'd bomb America? And we wonder why the Iranians react as they do when we talk that way? I have no love for Iran's Mullahs. I have no love for Islam as they practice it, live it, and enforce it. I don't know enough about Ahmadinejad to know how much of my friend's report is accurate. But I do think our media has done us a terrible disservice, just as they did in Iraq, with the way they've covered it.
Originally Posted By DAR <<Can you imagine DAR's reaction if another country said they'd bomb America? >> It'd pretty much be the same.
Originally Posted By DAR Well the troubles the Jewish people have had goes back a little further than Holocaust.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox ^^ As it's been for women around the globe. And millions more women died during those dark times of witch hunts and executions than during the Jewish Holocaust of WWII. But much of the world doesn't give a tinker's damn about the Women's Holocaust, much less know about it.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Well the troubles the Jewish people have had goes back a little further than Holocaust.<< So naturally you support giving Native Americans back their land, giving African Americans all the buildings they built (including the Capitol and the White House), along with reparations?
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<Our media wants a horse race. They've created a story of us vs. them with Iran. We talk openly about bombing them. Can you imagine DAR's reaction if another country said they'd bomb America? And we wonder why the Iranians react as they do when we talk that way? I have no love for Iran's Mullahs. I have no love for Islam as they practice it, live it, and enforce it. I don't know enough about Ahmadinejad to know how much of my friend's report is accurate. But I do think our media has done us a terrible disservice, just as they did in Iraq, with the way they've covered it.>> Wholeheartedly agree. Good post, ecdc.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <I wasn't alive during the Shah regime.> I wasn't alive for Hitler and Stalin, but I know that they sucked too (putting it mildly).
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I wasn't alive for Hitler and Stalin, but I know that they sucked too (putting it mildly).<< You're not alive during the Obama administration?
Originally Posted By DAR <<I wasn't alive for Hitler and Stalin, but I know that they sucked too (putting it mildly).>> I take it back the Shah was deposed in 1979 which made me 5. But still I haven't heard much Shah Talk in an historical sense, just your basic he was the leader of Iran.
Originally Posted By mawnck >>But still I haven't heard much Shah Talk in an historical sense, just your basic he was the leader of Iran.<< Rent "Persepolis."
Originally Posted By DAR I've been wanting to see that but it has to wait until I finish watching entire series of the Shield and the Wire. And I'm only on Season 1 of the Shield.
Originally Posted By mawnck Here's the scene, but the darn thing's in French... <a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ybg2_persepolis-extrait-1_shortfilms" target="_blank">http://www.dailymotion.com/vid...ortfilms</a>
Originally Posted By Dabob2 The Shah was your basic authoritarian unelected despot. Jailed, tortured, and killed his political enemies/dissidents. Known for his brutality. Unfortunately, it was only the Islamic zealots who had the stones and commitment to rise up and depose him. Very briefly there was hope that Iran was not trading a brutal dictatorship for a brutal theocracy, but only briefly.
Originally Posted By Mr X Apparently we can't all agree, even on this! Personally, I'm with Dar. Iran is a cesspool and I don't care if Akmadinnerjacket is the Dali Lama, they are still a belligerent, abusive and horrid regime that the world would be better without. Frankly I think we coddle scumbags far too much these days. And by "we" I don't mean "Police Force America", I mean the civilized world should collectively speak out against oppression such as we find in breeding grounds of faith based hatred like Iran.
Originally Posted By Mr X Special note to ecdc: while I very much appreciate your contribution to this thread and understand completely the desire to bring to light abuses in the media and/or a different perspective towards the Iranian President, I simply refuse to endorse any sort of appeasement towards a regime which displays such utter and inhumane contempt towards women and minorities and any other sorts of dissenters in their midst. They are way too vile and contemptible to be given a pass on their crimes, and unless you have further evidence that what I just said is NOT the case, I can't for a second begin the "well, maybe they're misunderstood" discussion.
