Originally Posted By RoadTrip I'm beginning to think it is... <<“The melting and retreat trends are accelerating,†Ted Scambos, of the University of Colorado at Boulder’s National Snow and Ice Data Center, said in a statement released by the university. The results have not yet been published in a scientific journal. “The one common thread,†Scambos said, “is that Arctic temperatures over the ice, ocean and surrounding land have increased in recent decades.†'Best answer is warming' The scientists stopped short of directly blaming the melting trend on global warming but said they have few other explanations at this point. During the 1990s, a cyclical atmospheric circulation pattern called the Arctic Oscillation was believed to have been pushing sea ice out of the region and into adjacent waters. But the oscillation has weakened in recent years, and yet the melting continued and even accelerated. “Something has fundamentally changed here, and the best answer is warming,†said Mark Serreze, another researcher at the snow and ice data center.>> Source: <a href="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9527485/" target="_blank">http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/95 27485/</a>
Originally Posted By thenurmis Yes GW is real, but I don't think the real cause is known. I do not know how much of it is really the result of "man". I kinda think that it may be something well out of our controll.
Originally Posted By Disneyman55 Actually Roadtrip, there has been documented evidence of Global Warming, but the question here is this; What is the proven human causality? I got into this debate with a gentleman on another board and despite all the mounds of articles I perused through, I could not find any researcher who could and would provide proof of a link to human causality. Assumptions aplenty, but no proof. I also found it interesting that one of the main papers on Global Warming gave a worst case and best case scenario. Since that time, all the evidence has supported the best case scenario, but the media only prints the worst case scenario. You might want to check JunkScience.com. Yes, it is obviously put up by someone who doesn't believe human causality of Global Warming and not everything there is non-partisan, but he does bring up some interesting issues.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy Why do liberals think it's real is the real question. It's not real. I suppose we will need to bust out the charts showing the temps from arond the world in the last 150 years proving it's all a bunch of crap. Then we can bust out the charts showing the ice caps getting larger and the oceans getting colder, all to the dismay of kook environmentalists who want to claim America is responsible for destroying the world. My favorite moment in this comedy was when Algore had his global warming speech on the coldest day in the last 100 years. Priceless
Originally Posted By Jafar30 I believe God created this planet. And I believe that no matter what humans do to the planet, be it war, industry or our own wastefulness, only God can truly determine when it's time for this planet to check it out. Trust me we will all be long gone by then.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer What's the harm in setting policies as though it is fact? Wouldn't we benefit from more efficient cars and power, less pollution in the air and in the sea, and preventing massive deforestation? It might make things a few pennies more expensive, but in the long run isn't it the right thing to do anyway?
Originally Posted By wahooskipper Yes...it is the right thing to do. But, rarely is the right thing done in Washingtong...by either party.
Originally Posted By Disneyman55 In essence I agree with you Tom, but there are some issues regarding those policies. Personally, I think it is only intelligent to switch over to more fuel efficient vehicles as the technology comes on line. We need to be good conservators. Clean air is a worthy thing to work towards. Ample supplies of clean water and protection against abuse of the environment are all things I support. My problem with the global warming paranoia is that the best way to prevent environmental destruction is not to place limits on the economy. It is a proven fact that the worst polluters per capita are poor countries and those with the best environmental records are rich countries. Whatever policies are made need to be made by individuals who want to impact the economy positively, not by policy wonks with a socialist background who see capitalism as "evil". For the record, Communism's evironmental record is much worse than any capitalist country. I also can't help but cynically wonder if some extremist will use Global Warming Paranoia as a tool to nationalize industries, "so that they can be run better and avoid global warming" and go the direction of a certain prominent socialist of the previous century.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I don't know if humans are affecting the climate, or if this is part of a natural cycle of warming and cooling. We haven't been accurately recording such data for very long (humans think in terms of a few generations, the planet sees things in terms of millions of years). We should constantly be searching for more efficient uses of energy and ways to reduce waste, regardless if global warming is real or not.
Originally Posted By CrouchingTigger Global warming is real. I just heard last week that scientists have confirmed that the polar icecaps are receding by about 10 ft/year because of it. This had been confirmed by spacecraft that are orbiting around the globe for a couple of decades. They were talking about Mars, however.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder I heard an interesting interview on the radio last week with a scientist whose name I can't recall. She was on because the host was discussing the possibility of whether global warming was causing the increase in the number of hurricanes as well as their increased severity. What she said was that indeed global warming is real, but then said her answer is two-fold. For the first part, she said there is no evidence that global warming causes more hurricanes, there is a "preponderance of evidence" that suggests global warming can make these hurricanes more intense. She went further to caution that doesn't mean it is a certainty, but evidence they have points to it much more often than not. As to the second part, she said that if the changes in the earth's temperatire and melting of ice caps were indeed cyclical and not due to global warning, then it stands to reason that this cycle, however long it is, would see the replenishment of what was lost during a warmer period. But the speed at which temperatures are warming and the fact there's no natural replenishment suggests it is due to global warming caused by the more sophisticated of the species that populate this planet. Anyone who does believe in global warming, no matter who or what causes it, this scientist said, is flat out wrong and a fool.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder This interview, by the way, was on KABC AM 790 on a show called McIntyre In The Morning.
Originally Posted By Beaumandy <<Anyone who does believe in global warming, no matter who or what causes it, this scientist said, is flat out wrong and a fool.>> I guess the worlds best scientists are fools then.
Originally Posted By StillThePassHolder "Anyone who does believe in global warming' How's that for a slip? It should read "Anyone who does NOT believe in global warming..."
Originally Posted By Beaumandy "Anyone who does NOT believe in global warming..." We all knew what you meant. Hi William!
Originally Posted By ElKay Jafar30: ". . . only God can truly determine when it's time for this planet to check it out. Trust me we will all be long gone by then." Doesn't God direct Man to be stewards of the Earth? Wouldn't it be a venal sin against God if we knowningly distroy God's handiwork? Invoking God as justification for raping and pillaging the enviroment for short term profits at the expense of future generations is just terrible and ignorant. Ignoring the likely causes of Global Warming is very short sighted, akin to residents of the Gulf Coast NOT building on higher ground AND buying flood insurance, thinking either it's in God's hands or no hurricane has hit their area in generations. Intelligent people would try to protect themselves and their families from reasonable risks, even if it crimped their budgets. If the Bush Admin. took a reasonable position of the possiblity that GW might be caused or magnified by human activity, then reducing oil consumption and finding altenative energy sources would be prudent insurance against a possible disaster and if it doesn't come or comes generations down the road, we could benefit from the savings and sell efficient technologies to the developing nations who have fewer resources. Ignoring dangers is like Neanderthal ignoring the potential threats of weather change and smarter humans migrating into their territories.
Originally Posted By Spree <<<If the Bush Admin. took a reasonable position of the possiblity that GW might be caused or magnified by human activity, then reducing oil consumption and finding altenative energy sources would be prudent insurance against a possible disaster and if it doesn't come or comes generations down the road, we could benefit from the savings and sell efficient technologies to the developing nations who have fewer resources.>>> Why is this a "Bush" problem. He has signed many a law that will reduce our ommisions over the next 20 years.....the same cannot be said of Brazil or China...the World biggest polluters. I think that is quite "reasonable." There are 11 countries on this planet that pollute more then the US...Even if Bush banned Every Car and smokestack in America the overall effect on World "greenhouse gases" would be negligable.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>There are 11 countries on this planet that pollute more then the US...<< Dammit! Can't America be #1 in ANYTHING anymore?
