Originally Posted By wonderingalice I'm a non-smoker and former condo owner. I'm very happy for the laws banning smoking in LV restaurants... But THIS is ridiculous: Smoking snuffed out in multiunit housing City officials in Richmond are snuffing out smoking in apartments, condominiums and public places, making it the hardest place in the San Francisco Bay Area to smoke. The City Council approved an ordinance this month that will ban lighting up in all multiunit housing by Jan. 1, 2011. Officials say smoking in multiunit housing exposes people to secondhand smoke, which can travel between apartments. The city already has banned smoking in parks, farmers markets and other public places. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ California is broke... Where are the $$ going to come from for the impossible enforcement of this nuttiness?
Originally Posted By mele It is getting out of hand. I don't smoke but I don't think smokers are the Devil, for crying out loud.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << California is broke... Where are the $$ going to come from for the impossible enforcement of this nuttiness? >> It's a little known fact that these anti-smoking laws have contributed to a marked decrease in publicly funded emergency services. There was a test case a few years ago where a municipality enacted a ban on smokin in public places and immediately saw over a 50% reduction in the number of calls for ambulances and other health related emergency calls. In a weird twist, the public was outraged with the ban and had it rescinded. The emergency services calls immediately went back up to their prior levels. The same pattern has been shown across the country to varying degrees. So, these laws save money for governments.
Originally Posted By wonderingalice That makes total sense, Sport Goofy. Obviously, enforcement can only come through neighbors ratting each other out and calling authorities. Figure in a couple of calls for each instance - one for the police to harrass the smoker in his own home... and another for a paramedic to provide first aid after the smoker beats up his rat neighbor.
Originally Posted By DAR I'm as anti-smoking as it gets and next year there is going to be a law that every bar and restaurant has to go smoke free. Which will be great, but let the business owner decide on that, not the government.
Originally Posted By mele I'm glad most public areas are smoke free but I think it's over the line to go into people's homes and tell them they cannot smoke there. I don't even mind a little second hand smoke. It's when it's so thick that it burns my eyes that I really start to hate it. Maybe there should be laws that let tenants move out easier if their neighbor's smoke is bothering them...I don't know. There's no one answer that will work for everyone.
Originally Posted By Mickeysbestfan I can see this working with new tennants. If you own an apartment building, you should be able to make it non-smoking if you want. And since condos have a home association - they can say that the building is non-smoking, but that would have to be for incoming owners. It's funny with all the crime in Richmond that this would be one of their primary concerns.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Smoking is always a hot-button issue, and my beliefs don't exactly line up with the majority on this one. I smoke. I work in offices and I live in a progressive city (sf) where smoking is prohibited pretty much every place they can think of. If I may say so myself, I'm a considerate smoker, concious and aware of my surroundings and circumstance, and have gone to some trouble to move myself to an area that is suitable. So that said, there's an anti-smoking hysteria going on these days, and too many people are all too ready to jump on board. I see people walking down the sidewalk with their hand clamped over their face and nose with a panicked look in their eyes when they walk in the vicinity of smoke. I see people actively ducking and crouching and scurrying through the vicinity of smokers. I see people waving their arms through the air in dramatic fashion as they walk by, as if to fan away the trails of smoke. Disapprove of the practice all you want, but find a way to coexist too without all the histrionics and disdain. I've seen it all before and I'm not impressed. And don't get me started on the 'hothouse flowers' who drive around with stuff taped to their car windows to avoid having the sun strike their alabaster skin ... Oh and another thing. For those who aren't familiar with Richmond, CA - it's not quite the garden spot of healthy living you might think. It's one of the most economically distressed, crime-ridden, gang saturated, drug addicted, violent hellholes in the entire state. With a few nice areas scattered in between. For example, from today's SFGATE ... Latest Richmond shooting kills one on I-580 (07-13) 07:31 PDT RICHMOND -- A driver died and his two passengers were wounded when someone in a car pulled up alongside them and opened fire early today on Interstate 580 in Richmond, the latest burst of violence in the city, police said. << These freeway shootings happen at least once or twice a month in Richmond. But be careful not to light up while you're just passing through - it's now a crime.
Originally Posted By mele My mom is one of those people who gets very histrionic around smoke. I can't count the times I've been mortified by her behavior.
Originally Posted By wonderingalice Hey gadzuux... Is there REALLY a "majority" that agree with this nonsensical law passed by the Richmond city council? Or are there simply too many people that didn't bother to speak out in protest?
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I'm as anti-smoking as it gets and next year there is going to be a law that every bar and restaurant has to go smoke free. Which will be great, but let the business owner decide on that, not the government.<< It's interesting that back in the late 80's, or whenever it was that smoking was banned in bars and restaurants here, restaurant owners fought against it, saying that research showed that smokers dined out more frequently than non-smokers. Well, the ban was enacted, and restaurants got a new wave of customers. Because the reason so many smokers dined out more frequently was because people who didn't want their spaghetti tasting like a Winston stayed home in large numbers. Bars adapted, life went on. As to banning smoking in multi-unit dwellings, I think that's great. Having lived upstairs from smokers in the past, the stench of the cigarette smoke wafts into your place whether you want it or not. To "co-exist" means you have to keep your windows shut, can't go out on your balcony, etc. I think to accommodate smokers, there should be some sort of "soundproof booth" sort of enclosure, where smokers can go and smoke and keep it to themselves. I don't get dramatic about it, but the stench of cigarette smoke is really very gross to me. I grew up surrounded by smokers in my family. It never bothered me, and i thought anyone who made a big deal about smoke was just making a scene for attention. Then my mom quit, other smokers in the family quit or died off, and suddenly I had my sense of smell fully. Now I can smell cigarette smoke if a person driving ahead of me is smoking in their car. I hate it. On a related note, I am always curious why smokers want to leave their car windows open when they smoke. I mean, you paid for the cigarette, you want to inhale smoke, why not keep the windows up and maximize your investment?
Originally Posted By Ursula I totally agree with 2oony except that I didn't grow up with smokers. I hated having an apartment on the third floor when someone below smoked. It filled up our water-facing apartment with smoke as both our bedroom and living room had sliding-glass doors. So, we lived at the ocean and couldn't enjoy it one bit. But, I agree that some people come down too hard on the better smokers. There are considerate smokers out there.
Originally Posted By wonderingalice Like you, 2oony, I can smell it coming from cars in front or behind me, even when my windows are up and my vents aren't pulling in outside air. Funny, though... I lived next door to chain smokers in my first apartment years ago and never smelled it in my place. 'course it was a cheap apartment with no balcony or patio... It just really seems like California is becoming a police state. And that's a shame.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Well, it doesn't feel like a police state to me, but maybe it's because it isn't my ox being gored. My preference would be for people to just be considerate as possible. I can avoid a smoking area, and even though it stinks to be behind a smoker in the car ahead of me, that's a momentary inconvenience I can live with. I am sure that a backyard BBQ is offensive to a vegetarian as well. Some people are bothered by cologne and perfume. There is usually a mingling of various food smells in an apartment complex at any given time, and it isn't always a good smell. Generally, I think pushing smoking areas into smaller, concentrated spots is a good thing and about as close to a win-win is we'll get.
Originally Posted By wonderingalice Hopefully, they'll even allow that option. Something makes me doubt it. (Dang, I sound like a Negative Nelly! And I've NEVER been a smoker! *L*)
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost I have smoked in the past and I can tell you that smokers used to be almost militant about it. Science has proven that cigarette smoke will eventually kill you so it is hard to justify the habit. That said, what's next...no drinking wine in your house because alcohol kills and it should be banned? We have been overrun with people that want to control every aspect of YOUR life so that it fits in with what they see as ideal. They will continue to feel that way until someone decides that bicycling on the side of the road is dangerous or jogging on the road is dangerous so it should be stopped. How many of the hand wavers have a few pops and then get in a car and drive around because they just have a slight buzz and are in complete control? Second hand smoke has potential to be dangerous but not in the open air. Someone would have to prove that one to me, without question. How about driving to the store in one of those BMW diesels...no risk to your health with that is there? A lot of you have not been around for the past 60 years to see the changes and how far the no smoking campaign has come along. I used to be able to smoke in my office, have staff meetings where the room was virtually blue with smoke. Almost everyone smoked and it was everywhere. I remember going to WDW and standing in the Q smoking. We are only a few short years away for it to be a thing of the past, as a personal habit but something else will take it's place. I knew someone that was almost militant about non-smoking but would go home and fire up a reefer about the size of a small cannon. Can you say hypocrite? Anyway, once the government gets into your home and controls your actions there, I am pretty worried about where that will lead. I hope all the supporters of the ban are prepared for what is to come. Anything that anyone considers a guilty pleasure at this point can and may be targeted. Lord knows what will happen if someone like Jerry Falwell gets on that social band wagon. We might live longer (although I doubt it) but it sure won't be much fun.
Originally Posted By Ursula I certainly wouldn't want to be in a conference room where the room is blue with smoke. And I smoked for years. I also am old enough to know what it was like to actually smoke in the office. Guess what? I am an ex-smoker. I don't WANT to smell it. As much as you have a right to smoke, I should have a right to not have to smell it. I don't want to control your life, I just want control of mine.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I hope all the supporters of the ban are prepared for what is to come.<< Well, we'll see. I would prefer that the ban be a little more limited in scope -- in that people could smoke IN their apartments but not out on the patio or with their windows wide open. >>what's next...no drinking wine in your house because alcohol kills and it should be banned?<< Apples and oranges. Wine can be enjoyed without it wafting into the faces of others.
Originally Posted By alexbook Doesn't Richmond have some gentrified areas? I'll bet this gets enforced in those parts of town and ignored in the higher-crime neighborhoods. ----- There are smokers in my (theoretically) non-smoking apartment building. I find it amusing to watch the ones who avoid "smoking in the building" by sticking their heads and their cigarettes out a window.
