Originally Posted By DAR <a href="http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090617/ap_on_go_co/us_health_overhaul" target="_blank">http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/200...overhaul</a> It's certainly a noble cause and even with some revisions it needs to be asked, how are we going to pay for this?
Originally Posted By andyll That's over 10 years and is less the the Iraq war has cost to this point. But to answer your question: 1) Higher taxes on the rich 2) Cutting costs... including mal practice reform 3) Cutting costs by getting more people insured. ( uninsured treatment always costs more the insured treatment. )
Originally Posted By Mr X Good points, post 2. DAR, how much do you think uninsured E.R. and other hospital visits cost us taxpayers anyway? You think they just get treatment "for free"? SOMEONE is paying, regardless. You know that, don't you? And please drop the "noble cause" crap. America is the ONLY modernized nation on Earth without a decent health care system. Want to keep rolling the dice until YOUR employer drops you too? Don't be so naive. It's costing us all, bigtime. And it should've been done decades ago.
Originally Posted By Mr X Or perhaps you buy into the Douglas methodology (one he learned from all the other wealthy and covered folk)... Negotiate with your employer for a higher salary to offset the cost of no insurance plan. Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Ha.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I don't think it's naive to ask that as of right now how do we afford this.*** As usual DAR, you are ignoring everything I wrote and simply responding to one point or phrase (in this case, just one WORD!). So I'll ask you again (if you wouldn't mind re-reading what I wrote), how can we NOT afford it?
Originally Posted By fkurucz From what I have been reading and hearing lately Corporate America is planning on eventually dropping health insurance benefits, so we have no choice but to move on to a single payer system.
Originally Posted By piperlynne Ugh!!! I completely support the ideal of universal health care. I want us to have it. I do. I'm willing to pay extra in income/property taxes. However, I do not want Congress to pass and certainly, the President to sign something that is just going to cost money and not really DO anything. And so far. . .that's what I see happening. I'd rather see single payer than a cluster**** of "lets try to make everyone everywhere happy and really not accomplish anything". I need to read more about the plans on the table. But that's my gut reaction right now.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt "...how are we going to pay for this?" Does anyone know how it is that European countries can pay for fully socialized medical care for their citizens and yet not go bankrupt? I understand the concern about the expense, but I thought that we were a nation that knew how to accomplish things.
Originally Posted By DAR We'll eventually get the "can" part, I'm just more concerned with the "how" part.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy If you look at the annual profits in the private health insurance industry, annual marketing expenses, and annual lobbying expenditures by the health insurers to avoid a public health care system there is a lot of wasteful money spent in healthcare that could immediately be recouped in a single-payer system that elimnates the health insurance middleman.
Originally Posted By piperlynne But so far, we're not talking single payer. No one in the powers that be are even floating that idea. It's a dirty word equated with socialist. Australia seems to have a system where they have private health insurance, but a universal system to ensure all are covered. (Not sure of the details which is why I preface this statement with "seems") Also not sure how well it works. Tough issue. I do believe that health/medical care is a human right and there has to be a way to ensure that citizens of this nation are able to have affordable and easy access to this type of care.
Originally Posted By Hans Reinhardt And that's basically it in a nutshell, piperlynne. I think it's fair to ask how it will be paid for so long as the intent is to find a solution.
Originally Posted By piperlynne Oh yeah, I agree. I don't however think they should tax existing medical benefits. That seems counterproductive.
Originally Posted By ecdc Roughly 50% (IIRC) of medical costs go to administrators. There's a lot of waste. There's a way to do it but it'll be tough with so many special interests, healthcare lobbyists, and politicians on both sides of the aisle, trying to defend the industry.
Originally Posted By DouglasDubh <Does anyone know how it is that European countries can pay for fully socialized medical care for their citizens and yet not go bankrupt?> They ration care.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 Newsflash: we ration care in the US too, only it's done by HMO functionaries (whose profit motive mandates denial of care) rather than government ones. I've never seen a study done of relative denial of care in an HMO vs. a European country, but I strongly suspect the Euros would come out on top. I know a number of Europeans, and while their systems aren't perfect, I've heard only relatively minor complaints. I've heard horror stories from Americans who were denied by some functionary sitting in Baltimore (or Bangalore), overruling their doctors and denying them care.
