Originally Posted By Mr X So, we've had some chats here about "freedom" and what it means, but I really don't get the different aspects. To me, "freedom" means I can do what I want, when I want, without government interference (so long as I don't cause harm to someone else in the process). And some have argued that "freedom" means different thing, like economic freedom, freedom of speech, etc... I'd like to learn more. Everyone please elaborate.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy <a href="http://www.lmlcsteam.com/" target="_blank">http://www.lmlcsteam.com/</a> FREEDOM is a new class of Navy ship. See link above.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose. I don't know what that means, but I always liked that lyric.
Originally Posted By johnno52 I think the word "freedom" is a word used by Western politicians to let us think we have it good! No doubt we do however we cannot always take these "freedoms" for granted.Mr. X (so long as I don't cause harm to someone else in the process) that can be applied to so many freedoms like Speech, can we really say what is right or do we always have to be "politically correct", Laws, there are so many that its one of NA biggest employer (lawyers), Hunting, can we hunt out of season, even if it is for daily subsistence? Religion, we can practice any faith we want, this is good for control? History has shown that it has created racism, hatred and lets not forget the "holy wars". Aren't they cover-ups for political and monetary gains? I think Americans (US) do fight more than any other nation to keep these freedoms but are they "controlled" to suit the real power holders?
Originally Posted By Mrs ElderP In the book _Washington's_Crossing_ David Hackett Fisher discusses liberty and how different militia units from the different colonies viewed liberty. Some examples: (pg 10) Washington himself believed that only the independently wealthy are truely free, thus liberty is very hierarchical. (The wealthy planter being more free than the small land holder who himself is more free than the slave.) (pg 21) The New Englanders generally considered liberty to be indepedence and freedom to belong to a community with mutual obligations. (pg 24) The back country Pennsylvania sharpshooters had the motto "Don't Tread on ME" For them liberty seems to have been very individual thing. (pg 28) The unit from Philidephia is described as having the most direct democracy of any unit out there, a very reciprical type of liberty. Slightly different in shades from the New Englanders exclusive communities. (pg 28) The silk stocking regiments of Maryland are described as beliving Liberty to be a volutary thing, a compact they entered and could leave. The page numbers refer to the edition that is available to read on Google books. I don't know if Liberty and Freedom are truely the same thing, but they're certainly close. I myself am not so much into the invidual view of freedom, "I am Free, I can do what ever I want if I don't hurt you." But the community view of freedom: "We are free to make and enforce rules that benefit the majority of us without unduly punishing the minority."
Originally Posted By Mrs ElderP I should add that I am aware there is quite a tension in both mine and Mr. X's definition of freedom, as in all Civil Rights. For mine specifically it's not easy to figure out how much harm (if any) the minority is allowed to suffer for the greater good. Right now many people suffer with out insurance so that we can all have lower taxes. For a long time Americans have considered this acceptable, now we're slowly deciding it may not be so acceptable after all. In any case, I still like to think of Freedom as something we work on together, not as individuals.
Originally Posted By jonvn Freedom? Freedom is something that is rapidly disappearing from the USA: <a href="http://blogs.zdnet.com/threatchaos/?p=541" target="_blank">http://blogs.zdnet.com/threatc haos/?p=541</a>
Originally Posted By jonvn From: <a href="http://www.news.com/8301-9373_3-9874114-55.html" target="_blank">http://www.news.com/8301-9373_ 3-9874114-55.html</a> "They also demanded, and got, the IP# of all visitors as part of the court order. "
Originally Posted By jonvn More on the story: <a href="http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/02/cayman-island-b.html" target="_blank">http://blog.wired.com/27bstrok e6/2008/02/cayman-island-b.html</a>
Originally Posted By jonvn You need only reflect that one of the best ways to get yourself a reputation as a dangerous citizen these days is to go about repeating the very phrases which our founding fathers used in their struggle for independence. --- C. A. Beard Crisis is the rallying cry of the tyrant. --- James Madison The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. --- Thomas Jefferson
Originally Posted By johnno52 doesn't this fall in the Mrs ElderP posting (pg 10) Washington himself believed that only the independently wealthy are truely free, thus liberty is very hierarchical. (The wealthy planter being more free than the small land holder who himself is more free than the slave.) Just change it to banks etc?
Originally Posted By SuperDry The meaning of "freedom" is very elusive indeed. Consider the two opposite sides to the issue of product safety (as applied to children's toys): "Consumers should have the freedom to buy any product they want, and not have the government decide what is and is not safe for their children." "Consumers should have the freedom to go into a toy store and be assured that there aren't dangerous toys for sale that can harm their kids." So, "freedom" can be applied to support completely opposite sides of the same issue. Another example is how when the United States has wanted to support terrorists in the past, they re-label them "Freedom Fighters."
Originally Posted By ecdc Freedom is the word we use to replace the word "French" when we decide to throw a temper tantrum after they don't say "how high" when we say "jump." Therefore, we all enjoy freedom fries, freedom toast, and if we're really lucky, freedom kissing.
Originally Posted By johnno52 They where there and gave full support for the USA's "War of Independence" You are right SuperDry as Canada also got the "you're against us" attitude when our Government didn't jump into the 2nd. war on Iraq!
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn I know some of you may roll your eyes, but freedom can also be analous with salvation. For a person who has accepted John 3:16, a person saved by the promise of Jesus Christ is free. A saved person no longer has God's original death penantly looming over their head. Jesus Christ sacrificed Himself to replace God's death penalty sentenced toward you, and instead sentenced your penantly unto Himself - freeing you from everlasting death. That's freedom.
Originally Posted By jonvn Thanks. I never knew any of that. I've decided to become a born again christian now, just because of that one post.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>A saved person no longer has God's original death penantly looming over their head. Jesus Christ sacrificed Himself to replace God's death penalty sentenced toward you, and instead sentenced your penantly unto Himself - freeing you from everlasting death.<< No, you're not free because you're trapped in the illusion that this world and Christianity is real. You are unawakened. True freedom only comes when one realizes the illusion of life, death, and pain (or dukkha) and, over time, embraces the truth to achieve nirvana. Duh.
Originally Posted By RC Collins Not getting into the religious aspect... Freedom is being able to do whatever you choose with your person and property (including your wealth) insofar as it does not physically/materially harm someone else's person or property without their consent. Voluntary exchanges and alliances can be made under this freedom.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn <No, you're not free because you're trapped in the illusion that this world and Christianity is real. You are unawakened. True freedom only comes when one realizes the illusion of life, death, and pain (or dukkha) and, over time, embraces the truth to achieve nirvana.> Waking up in The Matrix.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn <Thanks. I never knew any of that. I've decided to become a born again christian now, just because of that one post.> Is that a tongue making that bump on your cheek?
