Originally Posted By andyll I stayed up and was rewarding with Silver posting the results of all the Monday polls. All the national polls are trending towards Obama with only gallup & rasmussen showing a slight Romney lead and both of those polls were way off the last few elections. NC seems to be going to Romney and Silver has Fl as a tossup with a slight lean to Obama. He now has Obama with a 92% chance to win. With the issues in 2000 with FL and 2004 in OH I won't say its in the bag but I'll sleep better tonight. If Obama wins I do think we are in for a major party structure shift which we haven't seen since the 60's.
Originally Posted By TMI "If Obama wins I do think we are in for a major party structure shift which we haven't seen since the 60's" I doubt that very much. I think they'll simply insist that Romney wasn't right wing enough. Just like they did after 2008 with McCain. Sadly, that panned out for them nicely (in their minds, anyway) because the 2010 pushback was impressive. Nevermind the fact that they'd have done even better if the hardcore right wingers hadn't gotten in the way of a total congressional takeover like 94 all over again. Now, again, a "soft" candidate loses to Obama, and they'll run even more nutjobs in response. I believe that will continue until we actually see a bonafide right wing stalwart candidate like Huckabee or Santorum or (gulp) Sarah Palin. Then, if they win, batten down the hatches. It will usher in a new age of right wing extremism which just might put the dark ages to shame. If they LOSE, they have nothing to fall back on. Major party restructuring, or perhaps even the total collapse of the party. That's my prediction, anyway. Gobama!
Originally Posted By andyll <<I doubt that very much. I think they'll simply insist that Romney wasn't right wing enough.>> I agree. And they did say that after 2008. But even though most of the nominees were right wing tea partiers they nominated a moderate republican. In 2012 I think they will nominate a far right candidate. I don't know what the remaining moderate republicans will do then.
Originally Posted By TMI "But even though most of the nominees were right wing tea partiers they nominated a moderate republican" That took me by surprise, too. I guess they weren't quite ready to go for broke. That'll be in 2016.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 They only nominated him because the other clowns were bigger jokes than he was and all imploded.
Originally Posted By planodisney If Romney loses the only major change you are going to see is a massive strategy plan to change the rEPUBLICAN MESSAGE ON IMMIGRATION AND OUTREACH PROGRAM TO HISPANICS. YOU ARE ALREADY HEARING THIS COMING FROM MANY, MANY REPUBLICANS. I think there needs to be a softer tone in my party and we need to talk more about what we want to be for instead of just about what we are against.
Originally Posted By TMI <a href="http://natesilverwrong.com" target="_blank">http://natesilverwrong.com</a> Guess they're hoping for the best over there in Rightieland.
Originally Posted By Dabob2 <If Romney loses the only major change you are going to see is a massive strategy plan to change the rEPUBLICAN MESSAGE ON IMMIGRATION AND OUTREACH PROGRAM TO HISPANICS.> They're insane if they don't do this. There will be pushback from the wingnuts, but if the adults don't take control and the party continues to alienate Hispanics, they can count on being the minority party in a few short years and for a long time to come. Sharron Angle probably cost the Nevada GOP the Hispanic vote big time for 20 years to come, and they can't afford to duplicate that nationwide. There's another thing they have to do, too, for similar demographic reasons, and that's change both the rhetoric and the policy on gay rights. Being seen as the anti-gay party was an electoral winner for them 20 years ago - even 10 years ago. But not any more, and the demographics couldn't be clearer on this one. A majority of Americans now favors marriage equality, and among Americans under 40 it's not even close. Yet most Congressional Republicans oppose even ENDA (Employment Non-discrimation Act), which simply adds "sexual orientation" to the familiar list of areas where you can't discriminate in employment (race, religion, gender, etc.); something a majority of Americans came to favor years ago. It's not that gay people will ever be that large of a group - but younger straight people who have no problem with gay people but in fact DO have a problem with discrimination against their gay friends and family... that's a large group that is only growing. The GOP can't afford to be seen as anti-gay any more - it's an electoral loser for them, and will only be more so as the years go on. They need to ditch that. First they'll probably just downplay it so as not to rile the base, but eventually it's got to be ditched.
Originally Posted By andyll <<I think there needs to be a softer tone in my party and we need to talk more about what we want to be for instead of just about what we are against.>> This is why I think their may be a massive party shift... maybe a 3rd party. The moderate republicans are going to try to take back their party. The far right will not allow it. Remember... a lot of the conservative talking heads are far right tea party types. If Clinton runs their heads will explode and they will insist on a tea partier.
Originally Posted By Labuda ^^ I certainly hope that something like that happens. I just cannot have ANY respect for anyone who calls himself a Republican in this day and age, whereas I used to be able to at least have a modicum of respect for some in the pre-Tea Party era.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox I wish we could take the teabaggers in Congress and replace them with clones of Colin Powell.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan Colin Powell is the best president we never elected. I wish he would have run. I saw him speak at a conference several years ago and he was great. Reasonable, measured, and exactly the kind of person the GOP should be nominating instead of the loons the talk-radio-wing of the party has forced on them.
Originally Posted By planodisney I am a very respectable person in every aspect of my life. I love my fellow man, always put my family before my self and attempt to show love and kindness to everyone I come in contact worth. I have plenty of flaws, but I can honestly say I have never hated ANYONE in my life and I go out of my way,in my non-LP World Events life, to not be offensive to anyone. The fact that you cant respect someone like me, well, there is nothing I can do about that. I feel like democrats resort to trying to shame and ridicule and demonize us on the right because it angers them so much that we dont agree with them that they cant contain themselves. The problem is that we truly have these core beliefs that no matter how much we are demonized in society, we wont, cant change them. We cant change our deeply held beliefs just so we can be excepted in the pop-culturally dominated society. Its hard sometimes because everyone wants to be liked and nobody likes to be labeled stupid, moron, brainwashed or hatefull, but if I or anyone else would ompromise their values to be accepted, then that wouldnt be RESPECTABLE.
Originally Posted By Labuda You are correct that there's nothing you can do about the fact that I have no respect for you, plano. But, here's some good news: my lack of respect for you does not mean you're a bad person nor does it have ANY bearing on your life.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<The fact that you cant respect someone like me, well, there is nothing I can do about that. I feel like democrats resort to trying to shame and ridicule and demonize us on the right because it angers them so much that we dont agree with them that they cant contain themselves.>> Where the hell did this come from?? When someone disagrees with you, that doesn't automatically mean the person hates you or disrespects you. Honestly, I do not understand why the conservatives do this. Why does disagreeing with beliefs = "demonizing"? Dude, you need to chill out and stop looking at the world in absolutes. There are a million shades of grey to everything. Black and white is only an illusion. You need to let go of your all-or-nothing thinking and quit being paranoid about other people.
Originally Posted By Labuda Skinner, I'm pretty sure it came from my post saying I can't respect someone who's voting against their own best interests (i.e., most people who are voting Republican today)
Originally Posted By planodisney skinner, you need to read the above post. He said he cant respect anyone who calls themselves a republican. I was responding to that comment. And, are you serious, Republicans, in a general way, are demonized on here all the time. My goal isnt to chastise someone for feeling that way, but to hepefully make them understand that there are good and loving and decent people like myself out there who just happen to have different core values and beliefs.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox <<We cant change our deeply held beliefs just so we can be excepted in the pop-culturally dominated society.>> I think I see one major flaw in your conclusion, plano. Holding onto a deeply held belief and keeping it to yourself is vastly different than taking that belief and attempting to legislate it. Just some examples off the top of my head: Don't like abortion? Don't have one. But don't restrict anyone else who wants one. Don't like gay marriage? Don't get one. But don't restrict anyone else who wants one. Don't like contraception? Don't use it. But don't restrict anyone else who wants it. That's the difference which turns respect into contempt. If your deeply held belief stayed with you, that's fine. But the moment you try to elect someone who wants to take that belief and make it applicable to EVERYONE in the nation, whether or not those people hold the belief themselves... that's wrong. And that's what most conservatives in this country have been doing for decades, trying to legislate their deeply held beliefs so that everyone in the nation is forced to abide by them.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan >>I feel like democrats resort to trying to shame and ridicule and demonize us on the right because it angers them so much that we dont agree with them that they cant contain themselves.<< That's not why. It's because the right currently espouses some pretty mean-spirited stuff. "Compassionate conservatism" is a distant memory. The current GOP is more about Ayn Rand.
Originally Posted By planodisney You are absolutely right labuda, I vote against my own SELF interest all the time. I have never, not once, voted based upon which candidate I thought was going to do more for me. I always vote based upon what I feel is right and what is best for our society as a whole. I hear liberals make the argument that many republicans vote against their best interest, all the time. Then I heard Bill Maher on his show 2 weeks ago, basically pat himself on the back by saying that the difference between rich liberals and conservatives is that people like him vote against their own self interest for the good of the country. i wanted to jump through the t.v and ask him what about all the times you blast conservatives for voting against their best interest.
