Originally Posted By ecdc <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings/">http://www.washingtonpost.com/...ootings/</a> Incredibly, the government doesn't track police shootings. So the Washington Post decided to this year. Another paper (the Guardian, I think) is tracking all deaths of people in encounters of police or in police custody, not just shootings. The statistics are incredible. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that some of these people needed to be shot and killed to protect the life of the officer and/or others. But it's worth contrasting how many people in the U.S. die every year compared to those who die in other countries at the hands of police. In the UK, police killed 52 people *in the entire 20th century*. That is astounding. Now, I know we'll be treated to lots of posts about how different the U.S. is, etc., etc. It will not be unlike posts about how we can't really compare the U.S. to other countries when it comes to gun deaths. *shrug*, America is different (exceptional!), whaddya gonna do! But if you can't see a massive disparity like this and think, "Something is wrong," then you need to rethink some things. This isn't about individual police officers and whether or not they're good guys. This is about a systemic problem in this country that allows our police to kill people at an alarming rate without repercussions. Oh, and finally, to head off the inevitable false equivalency, 68 police officers have died on the job this year, 17 by guns. Eleven had heart attacks and 20 died in car accidents. Tragic, but nowhere near the same level of violence they inflict on citizens. https://www.odmp.org/search/year
Originally Posted By trekkeruss Honestly, I'm not sure why it's so astounding. What is the number of people shot by non-law enforcement officers? Thousands and thousands, yes? We just have a lot of guns in this country, On that report, it lists the circumstances of the shootings. I didn't look at but a few, but the persons shot by police were almost all wielding weapons themselves. Now, as for fewer officers being killed vs. the perps, I would think a person trained in the use of firearms is going to survive more often than not, not to mention police officers are often wearing protection of some kind.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip It is probably inevitable that when you have a populace as heavily armed as the U.S. is, more people will be killed by police. If you represent a lethal threat you are much more likely to get killed. I know some are killed that are not a threat at all, but hopefully that is a small percentage of the total.
Originally Posted By fkurucz I read somewhere that on average, 2 unarmed people are shot by American police officers every day. Unarmed.
Originally Posted By Goofyernmost That contrast between the US and the UK is pretty misleading. There must be 10 times more population in the US then in the UK, so that puts it at about the same ratio. Plus the police don't carry guns in the bulk of the UK. That makes it considerably harder to shoot someone. Do you really want an unarmed police force guarding you? It would be nice if we lived in a world where that isn't necessary, but, we don't and I have no desire to move.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>There must be 10 times more population in the US then in the UK, so that puts it at about the same ratio.<< Huh? I'm not so good at the maths, but that means the U.S. averages nearly 1,000 police killings a year, and the UK averages at .5 a year. As in, point-5, as in, half of one. If it were the same ratio, that'd be 100 killings per year in the UK to 1,000 in the U.S. Not, less than one per year in the UK and 1,000 in the U.S. >>Do you really want an unarmed police force guarding you?<< A- for the straw man, D- for actually responding to the point.
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Unfortunately this situation has been set up by conservatives and the NRA to "keep us safe". With so many people now owning guns, and concealed carry allowed in most places, a cop has to assume that virtually anyone they stop could be armed. That doesn't give cops the right to shoot, but does mean that any threatening or aggressive action will more likely be seen as a potentially lethal threat.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Shot, or shot and killed?<< Not sure what the mix is, but what I do know is this: When an American cop aims his gun at you and pulls the trigger, his intention is to kill you, even if you are unarmed.
Originally Posted By wipadarquee Sorry but last I read UK has about 80 million and US about 300 million your 10 times figure is way the f___k off! Which means everything that follows is crazy talk
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>There must be 10 times more population in the US then in the UK, so that puts it at about the same ratio.<< Bzzzt! Wrong. The UK has a population of 65 million. So it one fifth and not one tenth. But here is something to chew on: Even thought the UK had to deal with a violent terrorist organization for decades (The IRA) their death toll count is still way below ours. As I've said before, my English cop brother in law thinks that there is something SERIOUSLY WRONG with American Police.
Originally Posted By fkurucz >>Plus the police don't carry guns in the bulk of the UK.<< Imagine that! It's easy if you try >>Do you really want an unarmed police force guarding you?<< Uh, yes. If an armed mugger robs me, I can assure you that there will be NO cop nearby to protect me. You're far more likely to be shot by an overzealous cop than to have one show up like Batman and save you. >>It would be nice if we lived in a world where that isn't necessary, but, we don't and I have no desire to move.<< Well, the Brits (and others) have shown that it's possible. But apparently we Americans are too incompetent to create a society where it is "safe" to be unarmed. We're armed to the teeth, with 300 million firearms in the public's hands, and yet we still need armed police to "guard us". And in spite of all these guns and armed police, our murder rates are higher than in other civilized countries. And we can't blame it on "minorities" because they also have those in the UK.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck I agree that it's the proliferation of guns that have turned our cops into trigger happy paranoids. The gas on that fire seems to be a callous indifference, even contempt for anyone not fitting the stereotype of law abiding citizen.
