Originally Posted By Darkbeer Interesting Press Release from yesterday.... <<Disney Ordered to Include Ex-Gays in Shareholder Resolution BURBANK, Calif., Jan. 13 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The Security and Exchange Commission (SEC) has directed the Walt Disney Company to accept a shareholder resolution requesting the inclusion of ex-gays in Disney's sexual orientation policies and corporate diversity programs. Disney had opposed the ex-gay resolution and asked the SEC for permission to exclude it from stockholder consideration. "Like many corporations, Disney implements mandatory diversity training for employees that emphasizes gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgenders, but fails to include ex-gays," said Regina Griggs, executive director of Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays & Gays (PFOX). "It is a serious omission both for the ex-gay community and their supporters." "Employees who support the ex-gay community are not welcomed to express their views and fear they would be forced to undergo sensitivity training because they support former homosexuals," said Griggs. "Ex-gays are forced to remain closeted because they are not protected by diversity policies and are subjected to open disapproval by others in the workplace. The inclusion of ex-gays will cost Disney nothing to implement and would provide true diversity and respect in the workplace." The resolution cites a recent judicial decision issued by the Superior Court of the District of Columbia. In that case, brought by PFOX, the Court ruled that former homosexuals are a protected class that must be recognized under D.C.'s sexual orientation non-discrimination laws. The Court held that sexual orientation does not require immutable characteristics. "Disney should treat ex-gays and their friends with the respect they deserve," said Bobbie Strobhar, the stockholder who submitted the shareholder resolution. "We need more of these resolutions nationwide to assure tolerance and safety in the workplace for the ex-gay community and their supporters." Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays & Gays (PFOX) leads the nation in providing outreach, education, and public awareness in support of families and the ex-gay community. They can be reached at <a href="http://pfox.org/about_us.html" target="_blank">http://pfox.org/about_us.html</a>. <<
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Let me add the link to the actual Shareholder Resolution... <a href="http://pfox.org/Ex-Gay-Non-Discrimination-Shareholder-Resolution-Walt-Disney.html" target="_blank">http://pfox.org/Ex-Gay-Non-Dis...ney.html</a>
Originally Posted By Darkbeer You know, I was listening to some of the news reports about the first day of the current court case regarding Prop 8 here in California. One of the folks suing is a lesbian, who used to be married to a man and had a kid... so if some folks can change their preference one way, why can't it go the other way?... and regardless which way you switched, shouldn't you have the same rights......
Originally Posted By DAR Ex-gays? I thought..... (Two men are talking)That does remind me of the Family Guy episode I watched yesterday. One of the characters was watching a video produced by Pat Robertson Ministries no less. An announcer comes on screen on how to identify "a gay" If you ask your friend what's your favorite Madonna album and his answer isn't none of them YOU'VE GOT A GAY. (A doctor is giving a man a shot.) If his blood produces a corrosive acid YOU'VE GOT A GAY. (Then an Alien type monster emerges, where the doctor proceeds to kill it) Not today nancy boy. Funny and absurd.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***regardless which way you switched, shouldn't you have the same rights......*** Precisely. Wow, Darkbeer actually understands and supports the progressive point of view on this!
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Mr. X, I had one of the MOST diverse weddings last Saturday, between disabilities and sexual preference.... Traditional church service and setting, along with a Hand-fasting performed (which happened to be a person who is gay). What I don't like is the Courts going BEYOND the law, and MAKING law. I happen to be a fiscal conservative with libertarian leanings. This is coming to a vote later this year, should be interesting to see how the Shareholders vote
Originally Posted By ChurroMonster "Ex-gays"? Aren't they called straight? Or heterosexual? If a gay man once dated women should he be labeled "ex-straight"? You know I was once a child, can I now be called an "ex-adolescent"? This is getting ridiculous.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt >>"Ex-gays"? Aren't they called straight? Or heterosexual? If a gay man once dated women should he be labeled "ex-straight"<< I was thinking the same thing.
Originally Posted By Wendy Pleakley I don't think there's such a thing as an ex-gay. Maybe someone had a realization and "switched sides", or is actually bi, but you can't just change your sexual orientation. And as ChurroMonster said, wouldn't those people just be heterosexuals? Can an ex-gay really be "closeted"? I suppose it's fair that people shouldn't be subjected to open disapproval or harassment in the workplace. However, openly declaring one's self to be "ex-gay" could be interpreted as being hostile to "gay and staying that way" crowd.
Originally Posted By wahooskipper First, if I Google "hand-fasting" will I get fired? Second, I don't think I quite understand the term ex-gay? In fact, today is the first I've ever heard of it. If the popular belief, which I've come to understand and accept is that one does not choose their sexual orientation, then how in the world can one become an ex gay? I'm not trying to be difficult in the least. I'm just trying to get educated.
Originally Posted By Wendy Pleakley >>how in the world can one become an ex gay?<< Yes, it's common understanding that sexual orientation is intrinsic to the individual. An ex-gay is someone who has allegedly changed their sexual orientation through therapy or whatever it is that they do. An "ex-gay" male may now be married to a women, and they may even be having sex together, but let's not kid ourselves, they're still gay.
Originally Posted By Darkbeer Many folks are born with a preference in gender in regards to sex, but not everyone. One well known situation is in regards to "strippers", many of them enter the business as "Straight" but end up Bi-sexual, or even switch to just women as partners, which many folks call Lesbian.
Originally Posted By BlueDevilSF >>One of the folks suing is a lesbian, who used to be married to a man and had a kid... so if some folks can change their preference one way, why can't it go the other way?... and regardless which way you switched, shouldn't you have the same rights......<< First of all, it really sets my teeth on edge when I see the word "preference" in this context. It shows me that the person using the term truly doesn't understand the difference between "orientation" and "preference." "Prefer" infers a choice in the matter when that couldn't be further from the truth. I mean, ask yourself: Are you secure and self-aware enough that you could seriously entertain the thought of being with a man and weigh it against being with a woman? And could you quantify that answer and explain why? I don't personally know the woman you're talking about, but if she's anything like various people I've known throughout my life, there are several possibilities why she got married and had kids: societal pressures, religious leanings, etc. You make it sound like she just up and decided, "Yep, I want some of that female action" and didn't look back. That said, no, I don't think they need legal protections in the policies and diversity programs. The thing about the ex-gay issue is that they're making a *conscious choice* to change their orientation, however misguided or futile it may be. The only thing they can really change is their behavior, but THAT'S THEIR CHOICE TO DO SO. In short, "ex-gay" is *not* an orientation, and it sounds like they're trying to gain that quality.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy << First of all, it really sets my teeth on edge when I see the word "preference" in this context. It shows me that the person using the term truly doesn't understand the difference between "orientation" and "preference." >> It really sets my teeth on edge when I see people try and describe the motivation behind an entire population of people in such simplistic terms. I am sure there are people out there who act upon ingrained genetic orientation towards sex as much as there are people out there who choose their preference for a sex partner. It's not a black and white world. I am just as turned off by people who enforce the notion that sexual orientation is ingrained as I am by those who claim it is nothing but a choice. The answer is that it is neither. Every person is different and their environment, genetics, mental state, along with a million other factors determine how they behave in life.
Originally Posted By skinnerbox << I suppose it's fair that people shouldn't be subjected to open disapproval or harassment in the workplace. However, openly declaring one's self to be "ex-gay" could be interpreted as being hostile to "gay and staying that way" crowd. >> That is precisely what this is about, Wendy. You nailed it. Forcing the employers like Disney to specifically focus on the ex-gay employees as they would the gay employees in the orientation sessions, is the most heinous form of indirect shaming for the gay employees imaginable. It sends the covert message that "still being gay" is a choice, that if the employee tries hard enough, perseveres enough, then they, too, can become an ex-gay, just like those other employees. If these employees are truly ex-gay, then they're now heterosexual. Period. Who gives a rat's ass if they've decided to become hetero, like the vast overwhelming majority of the rest of the world. They now align themselves with the straight world, not the queer world, so what's the deal? They consider themselves straight now. Whatever. Move on. If these employees have "issues" in the workplace for being ex-gay, for now being straight, then that's their hangup. If other employees want to treat them differently because they believe they've been "cured" their homosexually, that's the prerogative of the other employees. If a co-worker of mine continued to spout beliefs at work that the moon landing was a hoax, it's my right to ignore said employee, and report said employee if the vocalization of those beliefs interfered with my ability to do my job. Same for this nonsense regarding "curing" homosexually. It's just as bogus as the nutjobs who think the moon landings were staged on Hollywood sets. Why should any employer be forced to give them a platform, however indirect, to advance their agenda on the rest of the company, particularly the gay employees? No amount of employee orientation or sensitivity training can convince anyone who doesn't want to be convinced that ex-gays are completely heterosexual, especially when medical and psychiatric science has proven otherwise. It seriously bothers me that this is now being forced down the throats of human resources in the form of sensitivity training. Should we also give sensitivity training to all employees regarding those who believe in voodoo spells and the tooth fairy? Well, at least at companies other than Disney?
Originally Posted By Wendy Pleakley >>Many folks are born with a preference in gender in regards to sex, but not everyone. One well known situation is in regards to "strippers", many of them enter the business as "Straight" but end up Bi-sexual, or even switch to just women as partners, which many folks call Lesbian.<< Of course, that might solely be a business decision. Or they were bi. In any case, we're still talking about actions, not orientation, and I find it really hard to believe that anyone chooses whether to have same-sex or opposite-sex attraction. People born without a clear preference are bisexual. They may eventually gravitiate to one or the other, but they haven't made a choice as to who they're attracted to, they've just settled on which they prefer. They're still bisexual.
Originally Posted By DAR <<One well known situation is in regards to "strippers", many of them enter the business as "Straight" but end up Bi-sexual>> That's just to get more customers.
Originally Posted By Wendy Pleakley Of course, if anything could turn a women gay, I imagine it would be the type of men who frequent strip clubs...
Originally Posted By DAR It depends if it's the bachelor party that shows up Friday or Saturday or the "regulars" who are on a first name basis is what they have to worry about.
