Originally Posted By ecdc <a href="http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/18/carla-hale-gay-fired-teacher-catholic-high-school_n_3103853.html" target="_blank">http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...853.html</a> This is exactly why religious institutions should not be exempted from civil rights legislation.
Originally Posted By Dr Hans Reinhardt In the end this may be the best thing to ever happen to this woman. I'm betting that she'll be receiving all kinds of offers once the news of her termination spreads.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Oh, sure the Catholics fire a female who happens to be gay but they shield gay priests and cardinals. If they are going to start firing gay women they are going to decimate the ranks of the Sisters who run their charities and hospitals.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 It seems plausible that she would be fired for being gay because if she was a bad teacher she would still have a job.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< This is exactly why religious institutions should not be exempted from civil rights legislation. >>> Hmmm... Would this mean that the Catholic church would have to hire women priests in order to avoid sexual discrimination? Would they have to marry gay couples in their church (assuming it was legal in their state)? I tend to think that allowing this sort of private standard that's different from society's is the other side of the "separation" coin: if we want to keep religion out of the government, then don't we also have to keep the government out of religion? I haven't fully thought this one through, but on the face of it, a Catholic school setting standards for its teachers (whether it be on sexuality, or perhaps even that they are Catholic) may not be unreasonable. I don't know that I have a strong opinion on this one way or the other. Now, if the church wants to start accepting direct government money in the form of vouchers for students, then that's a different matter.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>I haven't fully thought this one through<< I'm with you - my initial comment was far too oversimplified for the myriad of situations. Most Americans would balk, I imagine, if the Catholic church refused to hire a teacher at a private school because they were black, for example. I also imagine (though I'm not 100% sure and I don't have time to look it up right now) that declining to hire someone due to their race even at a private school would be a violation of the law. It seems that the answer lies somewhere in defining the difference between providing public services and practicing religion. If a school is operating a school or providing adoption services, that's a public service (even if it's a private school) that has some level of government oversight and involvement. You can't operate a school, for example, if you refuse to teach any math or science and instead only teach catechism. I know how thorny even those issues are and there will always be tricky areas, but that's my assumption.
Originally Posted By SuperDry <<< It seems that the answer lies somewhere in defining the difference between providing public services and practicing religion. >>> Good point. Certainly, if a church operated a hotel or a restaurant, they couldn't have a "no coloreds at the lunch counter" rule even if their (interpretation of their) holy book said that black people were inferior. I'm not so sure that a private school falls into the same category of public service, especially when it comes to who is doing the teaching as opposed to who is admitted as a student.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Hmmm... Would this mean that the Catholic church would have to hire women priests in order to avoid sexual discrimination? Would they have to marry gay couples in their church (assuming it was legal in their state)?*** I'll go with yes. How awesome would that be!? (I realize it will never happen and I'm supposed to "perish the thought", but WHY again is it acceptable for them to do all that!?)
Originally Posted By Mr X ***if we want to keep religion out of the government, then don't we also have to keep the government out of religion?*** We force them to comply with all other laws, why are they particularly exempt from discrimination law?
Originally Posted By RoadTrip Would you expect an American Muslim school to hire a Baptist teacher? I wouldn't. Besides education, ALL religious schools engage in indoctrination. That is just the way it is. If you don't want that BS, put your kid in a Public School. Long term this woman will probably be far better off. Catholic Schools are known for paying the lowest salaries anywhere.
Originally Posted By Mr X ***Would you expect an American Muslim school to hire a Baptist teacher?*** Good question. I would hope the school would hire the most qualified applicant for the job, but I guess that's too much to ask. *sigh*
Originally Posted By plpeters70 <<ALL religious schools engage in indoctrination>> Agreed. Which is why I think they should be banned. I mean, when you think about it, what place does a church really have teaching our children basic things like math, English and science? Why are tey allowed to run schools at all?
Originally Posted By plpeters70 Don't get me wrong - I think there's a place for religious education. I just think that churches should only teach about religion - and leave the rest up to public schools.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer "I mean, when you think about it, what place does a church really have teaching our children basic things like math, English and science?" Unfortunately, they generally do a better job teaching those subjects than public schools do.
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 I went to a Catholic grade school and high school. We still learned math, science, English, etc. just like a public school. We always learned 1+1=2. We did experiments in the science classes. We read Huck Finn, Catcher in the Rye. The high school I went to was all boys for my freshman year then went co-Ed afterward. So we had dances, And we had sports teams, debate teams, a theater group. Really the only differences were they offered religion classes and there was tuition
Originally Posted By SuperDry I know people that went to Catholic High School. One of their classes was called "Theology" but I highly suspect it would have been more accurately called Catholicism. DDMAN26, can you comment on your experience? <<< We always learned 1+1=2. We did experiments in the science classes. >>> Well, that's Catholic private school. Of the various church-sponsored primary and secondary schools out there, Catholics have the benefit of having very little of what's accepted as fact in the general world of science being in conflict with the church's religious teachings. For example, my understanding is that the Catholic Church says that belief in commonly-accepted science is just fine and is not in conflict with God, faith, or the church's teachings, even to the extent of believing in Evolution and the Big Bang Theory. As long as you believe that what's behind the Big Bang was God's work, and that as individuals, God is in charge of putting a soul into each of us, a general belief in science as it's commonly understood today is just fine. That's a very different viewpoint than a lot of other Christian denominations, many of which operate schools. In many of these cases, the *only* thing that keeps them teaching what's commonly accepted as fact by the world at large is a state requirement of some sort. And even then, it's often done begrudgingly, and with the notion of "this isn't really true, but you have to know this to pass the test."
Originally Posted By Mr X ***I know people that went to Catholic High School. One of their classes was called "Theology" but I highly suspect it would have been more accurately called Catholicism*** Indeed it was, in my case. I was disappointed as I was expecting to learn all about the world's great religions (how foolish of me!), but all I was "taught" was that they were all wrong. I also recall that religion was injected elsewhere too, unlike in DD's experience. For example, in French class we said memorized prayers in French at the start of every class. And I think there was also quite a lot of Catholic emphasis in the history classes as well, though I honestly don't remember all that much (I only went to Catholic high school for a couple of years before I had enough).
Originally Posted By DDMAN26 The first two years in high school yes it was Catholicism but after I did take a comparative religion course that was pretty straightforward. We were never told that these other religions were inferior or anything like that. And I took Spanish for four years and never had to learn prayers in Spanish.
