Originally Posted By Darkbeer <a href="http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/aug/26/clinton-voters-buck-obamas-bid/" target="_blank">http://washingtontimes.com/new...mas-bid/</a> >>CHICAGO | Sen. Barack Obama's bid for party unity at the Democratic National Convention, which opens Monday, is being challenged by angry supporters of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton who refuse to let heal wounds from a brutal primary fight that their candidate lost. "You can actually feel this party splitting," said Diane Mantouvalos, co-founder of Just Say No Deal coalition, an Internet-based collection of more than 250 groups vehemently opposed to the impending presidential nomination of Mr. Obama at the party convention in Denver. "There is a lot of anger out there." The renegade Democrats plan to stage protests outside the convention hall, flood the Internet with live blogs from Denver and air a TV ad challenging the legitimacy of the party's nominating process. Miss Mantouvalos said her group is screening two anti-Obama documentary films in Denver this week, including "The Audacity of Democracy," a play on the title of one of Mr. Obama's autobiographical books. Mr. Obama exacerbated the ill will Saturday by tapping Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware as his running mate, dashing Clinton supporters' dreams that she would at least get the No. 2 spot on the ticket. The Obama team didn't even ask Mrs. Clinton for the papers and records needed for the customary vetting process, a sign that she never was seriously considered despite Mr. Obama's public words, Clinton aides said. "It's a total dis to Senator Clinton," Miss Mantouvalos said. "It just speaks volumes about how Barack Obama doesn't stand for anything." With polls showing as many as half of Mrs. Clinton's voters up for grabs in the fall, Republican Sen. John McCain's campaign sought to immediately seize on the opportunity by airing a TV ad Sunday quoting the former first lady's criticisms of Mr. Obama during the primary campaign. The ad also features a voice-over announcer echoing Clinton supporter's frustration about Mr. Obama's vice-presidential pick: "She won millions of votes but isn't on the ticket. Why? For speaking the truth." Clinton spokeswoman Kathleen Strand dismissed the ad, saying Mrs. Clinton's "support of Barack Obama is clear. She has said repeatedly that Barack Obama and she share a commitment to changing the direction of the country, getting us out of Iraq and expanding access to health care. John McCain doesn't. It's interesting how those remarks didn't make it into his ad." Will Bower, a registered Democrat in the District who co-founded an anti-Obama group called PUMA, nonetheless said he likely will vote for Mr. McCain. "I feel that Obama has won a fraudulent campaign," Mr. Bower said. "He's done nothing. He's great at speeches and that's it." ASSOCIATED PRESS Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton waves to United Farm Workers members in Fresno, Calif., on Sunday. Polls taken over the past week show as many as one in five of the Clinton supporters now back Sen. John McCain.<< Much more at the link...
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan LOL< the Darkbeer Post-O-Matic is working. Just in time for the convention!
Originally Posted By mawnck Wait - who is this Hillary person? I'm not sure I've ever heard of her. Was she the one who did the video about the wrinkly old guy?
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> The renegade Democrats plan to stage protests outside the convention hall, flood the Internet with live blogs from Denver and air a TV ad challenging the legitimacy of the party's nominating process. << To what end? The "legitimacy" of the nominating process isn't in doubt - their candidate got fewer votes in the primaries than her contender. She came up short in both total vote count and in the number of states won. This is sour grapes - this is a foot-stomping tantrum. These women feel like the democratic party owes them something because they lost. It's become unPC to say it, but it's absolutely true - these women need to get over it, just like their candidate has. Or go and vote for the pro-life guy. But throwing a hissy fit in front of media hungry for any story doesn't serve anybody's interests - not the dems, not the republicans, and certainly not a shrill gaggle of sore losers with an overblown sense of entitlement. >> ... an Internet-based collection of more than 250 groups vehemently opposed to the impending presidential nomination of Mr. Obama at the party convention in Denver. << This is like being 'vehemently opposed' to the sun rising in the morning. It's ridiculous. My guess is that no more than a handful of people will participate in this.
Originally Posted By mawnck New Madonna Video Compares McCain to Hitler <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/25/arts/music/25arts2-MADONNAGETSP_BRF.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08...BRF.html</a> >>Madonna, who turned 50 this month, kicked off her Sticky & Sweet Tour on Saturday night at Millennium Stadium in Cardiff, Wales. The BBC reported that the two-hour show took a political turn when, in a lead-in to a remixed version of “Like a Prayer,” a video sequence showed flashing images of destruction followed by pictures of Hitler, Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe and then Senator John McCain. Senator Barack Obama popped up in another video interlude, but his montage included Gandhi, John Lennon and Al Gore. The tour arrives in North America on Oct. 4.<< Laughing Place World Events - The news you can use. We report, you decide.
Originally Posted By gadzuux Dave posted a youtube link to madonna's opening number in the 'Gen Entertainment' room. It's an eye-popper to say the least.
Originally Posted By woody Hey, I think Hillary pulled a wonderful political maneuver. <a href="http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/trailmix/2008/08/anatomy-of-a-subplot.html" target="_blank">http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/tr...lot.html</a> "Polls showing restlessness among Clinton voters. Behind-the-scenes reports of arguments about the theme of Bill Clinton's speech later this week. A Wisconsin Clinton delegate endorsing John McCain in a television advertisement. And more." "How did this happen? Many factors are in play. But central to the apparent breakdown was Hillary Rodham Clinton's failure to publicly and forcefully dispel the notion that she was snubbed by Obama's failure to vet her as a running mate." "Clinton left it to the Obama camp to spin the angle that she was not vetted because she did not want to produce documents without a guarantee of serious consideration. If that's true, you can well imagine that, without such assurances, she was not going to produce just about the only thing left that the world doesn't know about the Clintons -- the potentially controversial lists of donors to her husband's presidential library." --- Hillary sort of created a situation where she could be considered, but maybe not because she didn't want to produce documentation that could later prove problematic and then have her name get dropped from contention. If Obama is this easy to be tricked, what would happen if he had to deal with the Iranians?
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>...throwing a hissy fit in front of media hungry for any story doesn't serve anybody's interests - not the dems, not the republicans, and certainly not a shrill gaggle of sore losers with an overblown sense of entitlement.<< Mmmmm. And one wonders why so many Hillary supporters still feel that they're not just being marginalized, but treated with contempt.
Originally Posted By gadzuux A group of peevish women protesting outside the convention in a vain attempt to subvert the proceedings - yeah - they'll be marginalized and deserve whatever contempt may come their way. You can be a 'hillary supporter' all you want, but you still have to deal with reality - she lost. My original question remains - to what end? What do they hope to accomplish? The convention organizers have done backflips to accomodate clinton supporters - they take up two of the four nights available, and provide primetime access for hillary, bill and even chelsea. If that's not good enough for them then perhaps they need to reexamine their own expectations.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>A group of peevish women protesting outside the convention in a vain attempt to subvert the proceedings...<< Wow. Just... wow.
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Originally Posted By gadzuux "Wow" - because you believe these women to be responsible representatives of a legitimate interest group? That they are somehow being unfairly maligned? Because, as the 'fairer sex' they should be immune from criticism for their actions?
Originally Posted By DlandDug Wow for so many reasons. Because it's amazing to see how Hillary's supporters are just that right about about how they are perceived by many in their own party. Because of the complete lack of respectful language used to describe them. Because of the smug self assurance that they are just too wrong to be given any consideration. Because of the complete lack of awareness of what this treatment has led to. Because, because, because. Just... wow.
Originally Posted By DlandDug >>Because, as the 'fairer sex' they should be immune from criticism for their actions?<< yeah... that's the ticket. The "fairer sex." Yeah.
Originally Posted By jdub To discuss the actual issue of Clinton supporters who swear they are voting for McCain (one of whom is actually featured in a new ad for McCain), I hope the attitude shifts before the general election. I hope the die-hards do what I did when the two Democrat senators were going head-to-head, and actually research, compare and contrast their views and votes. It does not take much research to show that an issue-oriented Clinton supporter is FAR better off voting for Obama than McCain. On the other hand, if voting for Senator McCain is the correct option NOW, voting for Senator Clinton before was NEVER right.
Originally Posted By gadzuux I would differentiate between 'clinton supporters' and people - women - who are fomenting dissent from inside (and directly outside) of the convention. It IS possible to be a 'hillary supporter' and still be on board with the party's nominee. If these disgruntled types are looking for respect, they're going about it all wrong. But ultimately, yes - they will be marginalized. The caravan isn't going to come to a grinding halt for them. Nor should it.
Originally Posted By DAR I'm thinking there's a few scenarios that could happen this week regarding Hillary and Barrack: 1. She enthusiastically with no strings attached endorses him. 2. She has a smile on her face but says she endorses him through gritted teeth. 3. It's the last night of the convention, Obama has started his speech. Suddenly the Clinton's take the stage. Obama asks them why are they up there. The Clinton's tell him they're up there to wish him luck and shake his hand. And as he does that Joe Biden hits with a folding chair. Then Biden and the Clinton's raise their arms in victory and oh sorry I just went past some WWE action.
Originally Posted By hopemax > To discuss the actual issue of Clinton supporters who swear they are voting for McCain (one of whom is actually featured in a new ad for McCain) < Well, the person in question, was asked how she could reconcile her choice of McCain, considering McCain's position on Roe v Wade, She said she believed him to be in support of keeping it on the books, based on a comment McCain made in 1999. Apparently, she has not visited the John McCain website.
Originally Posted By hopemax Oh, forgot my point. Point being, that some Clinton supporters don't seem to be making informed decisions. There is still 2 months in the campaign, for those supporters to reconsider when presented with additional information.
Originally Posted By mawnck I hear that Hillary will be announcing her selection for Vice President at the convention tomorrow. ;-)
