Originally Posted By ecdc <a target="blank" rel="nofollow" href="http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/25/atheist-group-opposes-holocaust-memorial-on-ohio-statehouse-grounds/">http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013...grounds/</a> Sigh. Apparently opening a front on Holocaust Museums is seen as a wise idea in the fight against religious overreach.
Originally Posted By Yookeroo Sheesh. I'm as atheistic an atheist as they come, but this is stupid. Although, I think I'm with the ACLU on the inscription.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer It doesn't sound like they are opposed to the memorial, just to the use of the Star of David which excludes the other victims of Nazi atrocities.
Originally Posted By barboy Just curious........... for you six if this were a museum about the genocide of Yucatan natives by Spanish gold seekers and Ohio displayed a serpent God would you still have no issue? How about a museum about the slaughter of Christians by Romans and Ohio displayed a cross? Or a museum about the mass killings of Buddhists(teachers and political dissenters as well) in Cambodia by Pol Pot and Ohio displayed a Dharma wheel.
Originally Posted By ecdc >>Just curious........... for you six if this were a museum about<< Totally fine with all the scenarios you presented. Indeed, I wish we had those kinds of museums. I do understand that a variety of factors make it more likely that a Holocaust memorial or museum will be built in the United States than a memorial or museum to the victims of Pol Pot, and that's a shame.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer The problem is that the genocide of the Jews represents about half of the people who were murdered by the Nazis because of the ethnic or sociological group they were categorized by. Using the Star of David marginalizes the sacrifices made by the non-Jewish people killed by the Germans.
Originally Posted By barboy .........about half??? I just don't see it. Numerically gypsy, politically dissenting, outward(and perceived) gay, deformed and select Catholic victims would not add up to 5-8 million. Would it??? Perhaps if we included more military victims like Russians and Poles the numbers would be closer.
Originally Posted By Tikiduck The real pity is that we need memorials of this kind at all, and will probably need more of them in the future. I do think that atheist group could find better uses of it's time and resources, but if they feel their gripe is legitimate and legal, more power to them.
Originally Posted By barboy I'm not so sure that the atheist group has a qualified gripe on this due to the context: there is historical value at play here and not the overt promotion of a faith...........looks pretty grey area to me.
Originally Posted By TomSawyer Add in Slav and Pole civilians and you easily double if not quadruple the numbers of Jewish people killed inside and outside the camps.
Originally Posted By ecdc Saying you oppose the Star of David reminds me of Republicans who don't want to acknowledge Martin Luther King day, ostensibly because there were many people who sacrificed for the Civil Rights movement. It's true, but it's hard not to believe there are other, less noble reasons at work in their opposition. Sure, millions more people than the Jews were killed in WWII. The Russians suffered in ways unfathomable to Americans. The siege of Leningrad killed more Russians than all the British and American casualties in the war combined. And yes, more ethnic groups were systematically killed than just the Jews. And I agree that more attention should be given to those groups. That said, 1) Opposing a Star of David on a museum doesn't accomplish that and 2) There's a political angle at work here that is shockingly tone deaf. As an atheist, I have serious issues with the way Americans and our government privilege religion. From a practical perspective, this is a remarkably stupid fight. If these atheists are genuinely concerned about Hitler's other victims, like gays, gypsies, the mentally and physically disabled, etc., then work with the museum staff to ensure exhibits are included, or raise funds for your own museum. Opposing a Star of David, again, doesn't somehow honor other victims, it's lazy, and it's just a smug defiance in the face of one of the most sensitive modern topics.
