Originally Posted By mrkthompsn Ouch... We are in absolutely hopeless debt. <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-05-28-federal-budget_N.htm?csp=34" target="_blank">http://www.usatoday.com/news/w ashington/2007-05-28-federal-budget_N.htm?csp=34</a> This year's $3.1 trillion budget sure doesn't help. Let's see which presidential candidate plans on spending the most. I'm willing to bet the farm that either Democrat will score in the top two. We're screwed.
Originally Posted By jonvn Considering it was republicans who basically put us here, I don't see what democrats have to do with it.
Originally Posted By dshyates mrkthompson, you do realize that the last democratic president cleaned up the multi-trillion$$$ debt the last Bush prez created with his middle eastern war that he also started. When W. took over there was a surplus thanks to Philanderer Bill.
Originally Posted By barboy Dude, that's total BOLSHEVIK Both parties are fully culpable as to our fiscal woes. Also, remember that all money bills at the US level originate in the HR--- a body full of donkeys and elephants alike.
Originally Posted By SuperDry And which President and party in control of Congress enacted the largest new federal entitlement program in the last 40 years (Medicare D)? Hint: It wasn't the Democrats.
Originally Posted By barboy Was it Bush and the Republicans? Ya, I know they(the Grand New Party---because the Democratic party popped up in 1828 a good 25 years earlier than the Repubs.) spend too much but still the unwritten rules of reciprocity and the Thing 1 and Thing 2 effect(well then since this is a Disney site how about Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum) whereby the two parties are more similar than different prevail in US politics. It takes two to tango even though one dancer might be the lead.
Originally Posted By fkurucz It is for this reason (the huge unfunded liabilities and the debt) that I believe that the United States will eventually be dissolved.
Originally Posted By gadzuux The differences between the parties couldn't me more clear, especially on economic issues. The republican thrust is to prioritize spending on military and foreign affairs. The democrats favor domestic programs. The GOP is in no position to be crowing about their fiscal responsibility, not just because of either bush administration, but for the past almost thirty years. The revisionists would like us to believe that the reagan administration was some economic nirvana, but it's just not true. The deficit grew wildly, and there were TWO recessions. Clinton's term is a stark contrast with widespread economic expansion and significant reductions in the deficit. Most of us are old enough to have lived through these eras, and all the GOP spin in the world is never going to change the actual facts.
Originally Posted By jonvn "The deficit grew wildly" This is what happens when you cut taxes while increasing spending. Then Bush I put throught he single largest tax increase in history. Guess what's coming up, folks. I don't know if the US will be dissolved, but it is in financial ruin, with no manufacturing base to lean on to dig itself out with. We'll be a slave nation to CHina within 100 years.
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I saw a political cartoon yesterday that summed it up perfectly: It showed Bush and Pelosi handing out "stimulus" checks. Bush is saying "Fiscal irresponsibility got us INTO this mess... fiscal irresponsibility will get us OUT!"
Originally Posted By fkurucz <<I don't know if the US will be dissolved, but it is in financial ruin, with no manufacturing base to lean on to dig itself out with.>> I think that once the federal govt is declared insolvent and has no more pork to hand out, I believe that the states could walk away and form new unions of their own: a Hispanic republic in the sw, another in the nw, perhaps the rocky mountain states and the great plains form another, etc. I think that the sw could be the first to leave once all DC has to offer are high taxes to service the national debt, as by that point in time it will no longer be culturally part of the US anyway.
Originally Posted By Jim in Merced CA After reading this depressing thread, it's settled... I'm moving to Canada...
Originally Posted By pecos bill All this makes gold look like a pretty solid investment, and dont even get me started on the rebate checks!
Originally Posted By SingleParkPassholder What rebate checks? My wife and I likely aren't getting much of one, if any at all.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn The repubs and demos put us into this mess together. And we encouraged them to do it - together. We said "gimme this, gimme that" and they gave. Some gave more than others. With this year's Proposed Budget (from a republican) of $3.1 Trillion, I am disheartened. We are still trying to pay off Bush Sr, much less Clinton and Bush Jr (and all their respective congresses who gave them the budgets to pass). I am also convinced that if John Kerry were president, it would be even more than $3.1 trillion - Iraq war or not. I think I am now officially for shutting down the war in Iraq. Not because the war isn't the right thing to do - but because we simply cannot afford it. Sorry innocent Iraqis. Pick up your own rifle. If we were to get nuked by terrorists (or other) in our own country, we couldn't even afford that. We're toast. Don't just shut down the war, but shut down everything. No more international funding, no more United Nations. No more grants and special projects. No more. The bridge is about to snap. I can understand why it already hasn't. That does it. I'm voting Libertarian this election. Either of McCain, Hillary, Obama or Huckabee is sure to make matters worse.
Originally Posted By pecos bill Is America really so incredibly stupid as to buy into this rebate thing? Does anyone see the icredible insanity of being 59 trillion in debt and then giving away free money? Then both "parties" gleefully taking credit as if it were the most natural thing in the world to do.
Originally Posted By jonvn "What rebate checks? My wife and I likely aren't getting much of one, if any at all." "Is America really so incredibly stupid as to buy into this rebate thing?" No. But the politicians think we are, and that's why the government operates as it does.
Originally Posted By jonvn "I think that once the federal govt is declared insolvent and has no more pork to hand out, I believe that the states could walk away and form new unions of their own:" No, it won't be like that. As long as the government can pay the military, it will keep it together. So what will happen is that an "emergency" will be declared. Our vaunted liberty will evaporate over night, and our coversion to a fascist corporate regime will be complete. Oh they'll still talk of freedom, of course, but you better do just as you're told, or else. There will be nothing left for anyone outside of corporations as everything goes to service the debt or the military. When the government can no longer pay the military, then the states will be able to walk away. Other than California, and a few other states, it will be very hard for most places to survive, like Michigan. People will end up starving because there are no jobs and opportunity. Other countries which will then have a military stronger than ours, as ours will be ragtag, will come and take chunks of the place for their own. Mexico will likely take over a large part of the southwest. Canada maybe the northeast. California will be somewhat ok, we produce food and we have a lot of people here who can create and make things, at this time,anyway. We'll likely have a middle of the road government, alone with Oregon and Washington. Just a few more years, and that will be it.
Originally Posted By mrkthompsn <<Is America really so incredibly stupid as to buy into this rebate thing? Does anyone see the icredible insanity of being 59 trillion in debt and then giving away free money? Then both "parties" gleefully taking credit as if it were the most natural thing in the world to do.>> I'm OK with retaining property that I have earned in the first place. But don't make me give it to you so that you can give it back to me. They really should just reduce withholding. I don't like the concept of physical checks. Spending, on the other hand, needs to be cut. Not just "reduce the increase of the increase", but REDUCE overall. I mean, start by cutting it in HALF. A balanced budget does nothing by this point. We need immense annual surplus for the next hundred years, just to pay for the past couple of decades.
Originally Posted By gadzuux >> With this year's Proposed Budget (from a republican) of $3.1 Trillion, I am disheartened. << You DO realize that the $3.1 trillion doesn't even include the iraq war - or afghanistan. That's just how disingenuous GOP politics are. The most expensive items aren't even included within this record budget, and will call for several "supplementary spending" bills to pass through congress. Could bush be any more dishonest?
