Originally Posted By jonvn Maybe I should have not bargained so hard for that last $200 off my Impala. Or maybe they could stop making crap that people don't want to buy. Yeah, that's probably more likely. <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/11/07/financial/f041036S50.DTL" target="_blank">http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/ article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/11/07/financial/f041036S50.DTL</a>
Originally Posted By Kar2oonMan I received a mailer recently from Ford. I was taken aback by the fact that they had only one car on the brochure that could be considered anything but a gas guzzler. Loads of trucks and SUVs and such. So, it isn't very surprising to me that the US automakers, in a time when gas is approaching $4 a gallon, aren't doing particularly well.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut but other companies with large truck/suv lines are not doing as bad. Toyota even introduced a larger Tundra to fill a void they fell exists.
Originally Posted By jonvn Toyota also makes very high mileage vehicles, too. ANd they are considered far more reliable than GM cars.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut what Im saying is that its not the truck market that is killing GM, it is their overall declining quality.
Originally Posted By jonvn Well, it's also the styling. Their cars look kind of ugly. And the quality, as you say, is terrible. At least that is the rep. I would not buy one.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut however the 2350hp turbo version of the 09 cobalt sounds promissing. At least motorwise. I know it has tons of suspension problems as well as a mass amount of chassis flex. But if we could get that motor in say a civic, that would be nice.
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <Or maybe they could stop making crap that people don't want to buy. Yeah, that's probably more likely.< but they've been so consistent for the last 30 years or so........ too many people for too many years bought garbage...so even if they have gotten a lot better ( and I keep reading they have )- they make precious little that attracts me to even dare to step back in. Too many memories of Cavaliers and Corsicas, Firebirds and Camaro's - etc -- too many cars where I got to know the dealer mechanic so that one was on a first name basis... very little attracts me any more from any of them. And as a 'car guy' that speaks volumes to me. Owned waaay too many cars in my days ( over 40 between mine and my wifes ) -and too few of them memorable From the Big 3 - I find the '09 Challenger interesting, ditto for the Shelby Mustang. Most else - meh !
Originally Posted By jonvn I think that is a bad problem they created in the 70s and 80s that just won't go away. Mainly because the cars still aren't that good. I have no desire to buy a GM car at all. I would buy a new Saab, but as I said, they turned it into a Buick. Actually, they changed it into a fancy Chevy. No thank you.
Originally Posted By barboy When will people understand that there are only two countries that create quality affordable cars: Japan and S. Korea Everything from US automakers is garbage from engineeing to styling.
Originally Posted By barboy Hey, aren't Hyundais backed with 100,000 head to toe warranty? Give me any other automaker that has that kind of confidence in their product.
Originally Posted By peeaanuut Their warranty has alot of loop holes in it. I have seen their build quality as well as the way they run their engineering offices. I definately will not be buying a hyundai ever. But to each his own, people are still buying GM products so I guess there is a market for everyone.
Originally Posted By Sport Goofy FWIW, I own a GM vehicle and can't provide any evidence of "quality" problems. I think the quality issue is a red herring that people used a lot back in the 70s and 80s to justify the shift to foreign makes. I have friends with Hondas and Toyotas who have had all sorts of problems with their vehicles. I also have friends with Fords and Chevys who have had problems. Then there are the people like me who don't have problems with vehicles no matter what they drive. The real reason people shifted to foreign cars ages ago is because they were cheaper and had better gas economy during the fuel crunch in the 70s. Aside from that, the differences between automobile makes isn't all that significant.
Originally Posted By jonvn I think people tend to look at frequency of repair records at such things as Consumer Reports. It's generally not good. I've heard that Buick is now actually a fairly reliable car. But the styling of GM cars is really bad, too. Here's actuall a chart on it: <a href="http://www.autooninfo.net/RelPerBuickCharts.htm" target="_blank">http://www.autooninfo.net/RelP erBuickCharts.htm</a>
Originally Posted By jonvn Oh and an article. Buick and Lexus tops in reliability: <a href="http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/08/autos/jdpa_dependability/index.htm" target="_blank">http://money.cnn.com/2007/08/0 8/autos/jdpa_dependability/index.htm</a>
Originally Posted By jonvn But then you go look at them. They look like beached whales. <a href="http://www.buick.com/" target="_blank">http://www.buick.com/</a>
Originally Posted By vbdad55 <I think the quality issue is a red herring that people used a lot back in the 70s and 80s to justify the shift to foreign makes. < um no.... Let's see I owned a: 1973 Pontiac grand Prix ( couple of trannies in under 30K) 1975 Trans Am ( monthly visits) 1977 Ford Thunderbird ( had t tops that were cut wrong at the factory -bondo's and sold new at the dealer - they leaker like a sieve and had to hire a private entity before Ford admitted issue and bought the car from me ) 1978 - Cutlass - ( didn't have long so don't remember issues ) 1979 Trans Am - numerous overheating issues - electrical issues caused me to sell 1980 - Corvette -- threw a rod with 47 miles on it because they delivered it and forgot to put oil in it - dead serious on this shall I continue -- not counting they rattled and squeaked at every move - and used to come with about 20 built in warranty issues - no red herring - they were crapola in 1983 I bought my first BMW - and after about another 5 - 6years of GM - nightmares my wife went firs tto Nissan - then to Toyota -- have not looked back since - except once my curiosity got the better of me and I bought a Camaro SS Z28 - the Anniversary white with orange stripes edition - fast as all get out - to and from the shop. Seems they designed the car with certain sensors mounted right near the extremely hot catalytic concerter so they used to go out about every 8 weeks and the check engine light would come on -- 8 months in I sold it.
